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Post by
ElhonnaDS
There aren't a lot of fields where white men have been traditionally not represented in the US to compare it to. The only example I can think of that comes remotely close is Eminem's success at rap. And I think quite a few people have remarked that his success in a field previously dominated by African Americans is impressive. So the only example I can think of that mirrors this for white people, people totally touted his accomplishments as a white rapper.
Post by
Adamsm
And I think quite a few people have remarked that his success in a field previously dominated by African Americans is impressive. So the only example I can think of that mirrors this for white people, people totally touted his accomplishments as a white rapper.
Well, except for those who declared that he was just a puppet for Doc Dre heh.
Post by
MyTie
I'm not saying that it wouldn't be silly to say that white people are going to be inspired by Phelps. I'm asking if it would be considered appropriate, or racist.
Would it be racist to say:Phelps is inspirational, especially to whites.
Post by
FatalHeaven
Would it be racist to say:Phelps is inspirational, especially to whites.
It depends on the person I suppose. But it is false. He isn't ESPECIALLY an inspiration to anyone. The only thing he has done that no one else has is have the highest medal count. That makes him an inspiration to anyone who aspires to do so; but that would be to all races equally.
Michael Phelps rose to the top in a sport filled with mostly white athletes. Even his runners up are the same color.
Gabby rose to the top in a field DOMINATED by whites.
Do I think she should get special treatment for it? Not really.... but I do feel as though her accomplishment allots for an "especially African-Americans" to be added.
Where as, in order for Phelps to receive the same mention, I would (personally) require he rise to the top in a sport where whites don't prevail.
Post by
Magician22773
Where as, in order for Phelps to receive the same mention, I would (personally) require he rise to the top in a sport where whites don't prevail.
I disagree.
If a white guy won a gold in a running event, (which is pretty mainly dominated by blacks), and someone wrote and article about how inpirational that was to other young white runners, they would be vilified as racist.
Trying to ignore the double standard really is ignoring the elephant in the room here. It exists, and it shouldn't. There is no more justification for reverse racism as their is for any other racism, yet is accepted, and defended all the time.
Post by
FatalHeaven
Where as, in order for Phelps to receive the same mention, I would (personally) require he rise to the top in a sport where whites don't prevail.
I disagree.
If a white guy won a gold in a running event, (which is pretty mainly dominated by blacks), and someone wrote and article about how inpirational that was to other young white runners, they would be vilified as racist.
Trying to ignore the double standard really is ignoring the elephant in the room here. It exists, and it shouldn't. There is no more justification for reverse racism as their is for any other racism, yet is accepted, and defended all the time.
I wouldn't see that as racist, nor would I call a reporter who said as much a bigot. My argument stands, for me. Maybe not for you, maybe not for others. But as long as I
personally
hold the same standards for everyone, than I am justified in my opinion. I'm not ignoring any double standard if I hold EVERY race to the same means.
Post by
Adamsm
Sadly though, the media itself responsible for this; though, whenever a 'white' athlete wins something, they just talk about how great an athlete he is....but when it comes to any other races, they feel the need to make it seem like it's a 'great' thing they rose up out of their 'background' and became something grand.
Though, I feel the same when they say things about specific religions as well.
Post by
MyTie
I find it amazing how many people will argue that the white guy winning isn't inspirational. Yeah. We all get that. You might as well argue that he is a guy and she is a girl. Yep. No one is going to argue that you are wrong there. It's beside the point. Like Magician said, it's ignoring the elephant in the room.
To say that the actions of a white athlete inspires people, but especially white people, would be treated with hostility, because it would be viewed as racist. It doesn't matter how accurate the "insirationalness" of it is. To say that a white does something for white people is racist. To argue something is done at all "for whites" is a racist statement, and treated horribly. But to say that something is done "for blacks" is sensitive, tolerant, and progressive.
I don't really care to hear the arguments about how the blacks overcome adversity due to the ill treatment they received in the past. In the present day, that's a load of malarkey. They may have many hurdles they have to overcome, but many of those hurdles come from within the black community in the form of crime and broken homes. There is rarely a business that doesn't serve the races equally. In fact, in the US, that's illegal, especially in hiring practices. To imagine that there is some sort of giant class barrier between the races is to live in a time machine.
Now, I'm not saying that a young black person can't look at this black lady and get inspired by her actions. In fact, I think that young black girls especially will be inspired by her because they can
identify
with her. I don't think that a young black girl is as likely to get inspired by Michael Phelps, because Michael Phelps is not a black girl. Also I reject the idea that Michael Phelps is not inspirational, as he has exceeded massively in his sport. I assert that he inspires white kids because he is white and white kids identify with him, probably more-so than black kids. Kids identify with what they know.
So to say that the article is inappropriate is nonsense. I will say it is nonsense that there is some sort of white on black racism standard that has to be overcome, as if this is 60 years ago. I will also say that it is nonsense (
and this is my overall point
) to say that a white persons actions would not be inspirational, especially to a white kid, because, after all, they identify with what they know. It is the racism of automatic "racism" when something is "for whites", to be taken immediately as "against X". I reject the idea that something done to further a race automatically diminishes others, especially when that only applies to certain races.
That
is the elephant in the room.
Post by
Squishalot
I don't really care to hear the arguments about how the blacks overcome adversity due to the ill treatment they received in the past. In the present day, that's a load of malarkey. They may have many hurdles they have to overcome, but many of those hurdles come from within the black community in the form of crime and broken homes.
I think you inadvertently hit our point here. Nobody is saying that blacks have to overcome adversity
due to ill treatment from the past
. We're saying that blacks have to overcome adversity
full stop
, whether that's financial adversity or (dis)respect in the community (this goes both ways - see Eminem). As long as there is more adversity in one area of the community, seeing a successful person in that community will be especially inspirational for that community.
It's not about overcoming standards of respect or anything else. It's not a moral issue with grey or subjective areas, it's a black and white numbers issue (pun not entirely intended).(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Squishalot##DELIM##
Post by
FatalHeaven
MyTie - I NEVER said Phelps wasn't inspirational.
Michael Phelps is an amazing swimmer and he inspires all swimmers, including (but I wouldn't say especially) whites.
That makes him an inspiration to anyone who aspires to do so; but that would be to all races equally.
Michael Phelps is one of many. Gabby Douglas is one of...oh wait...one. Like Squish said, it's a numbers thing.
Post by
MyTie
Michael Phelps is one of many. Gabby Douglas is one of...oh wait...one. Like Squish said, it's a numbers thing.
I don't care about Phelps. This isn't about him. It isn't about Gabby.
Ok. I'm going to try to explain this one more time. I'm going to drop Gabby Douglas out of the equation completely, along with Phelps.
Person X is white. Person Y is black. To say that person Y is inspirational to black people is deemed tolerant and progressive. To say that person X is inspirational to white people is deemed racist and bigoted. I dislike that double standard.
Post by
FatalHeaven
Depends... did person Y do something no other african-american has done while person
X is succeeding in something already dominated by their race?
Post by
MyTie
Depends... did person Y do something no other african-american has done while person
X is succeeding in something already dominated by their race?
All other things between X and Y are equal. One is white and one is black. To say that the white inspires white people wouldn't be tolerated in the media. That's my only point. That's it. Whether the person actually is inspirational or not is totally beside the point, and irritatingly peripheral to the entire discussion.
Post by
Squishalot
All other things between X and Y are equal.
That's a flawed assumption in this case. Even you have admitted that Y has hurdles to overcome that aren't applicable to X. The reason it's tolerated / not tolerated is the fact that Y has those hurdles to overcome, whereas X doesn't. That's what makes it more / less inspirational. You can swap skin colour all you like, it's all about overcoming adversity. White male with congenital heart disease getting a medal in a marathon would have the same 'inspirational, especially for kids with heart diseases' tag.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Squishalot##DELIM##
Post by
MyTie
Even you have admitted that Y has hurdles to overcome that aren't applicable to X.
And X overcomes hurdles that aren't applicable to Y. If a white person where to overcome hurdles, and that were said to be an inspiration to white people everywhere, it would be seen as a racist thing. Could you imagine a white kid winning something over a bunch of black people and that white person getting singled out for the inspiration of beating all those black kids? lol. Assumption? No. There would be death threats to the writer of that article. Could you imagine a white kid on the NBA being called "an inspiration to white kids". It just doesn't happen. Due to the population disparity, there aren't a lot of aspects of life dominated by blacks, because most people are white. Even the English language is full of these double standards: white power/black power, NAACP, NBC, etc etc etc. Granted, white people who do want to excel at the expense of other races adopt these terms, but the same holds true for black people. The double standard, again, is that the language isn't all of a sudden dirty. This isn't some figment of my imagination, nor is the double standard made acceptable by different hurdles overcome by the races.
Again, in the end, I think it's all acceptable. I think that white people can be inspirational to white kids, and blacks to black kids. It just makes sense. So, say so.
Post by
Adamsm
Again, in the end, I think it's all acceptable. I think that white people can be inspirational to white kids, and blacks to black kids. It just makes sense. So, say so.
And yet....they still say that the White Athletes are inspirational, but they don't add 'to white people' because saying so would be a little moronic.
Post by
134377
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
You don't think that a white athlete inspires more white boys than black boys, and a black athlete inspires more black boys than white boys? That is moronic?
Post by
Adamsm
You don't think that a white athlete inspires more white boys than black boys, and a black athlete inspires more black boys than white boys? That is moronic?
No, feeling the need to add 'inspires white boys' to the end of a sentence is what is moronic.
I don't really get why we're suppose to be inspired by athletes anyways.
Also: The whole 'they are an inspiration to their race/gender' thing has always felt like a massive backhanded compliment; so we're suppose to feel 'good' for these people who have pulled themselves out of their social stigma of their background, racial problems and gender problems to go and do something 'great'...what a load of horse crap.
Edit: And one more thing! The whole 'we have great national pride' angle also bugs the hell out of me. Fine, the athlete is part of a specific nation, but get off the coat tails and stop acting like every single member of said nation was right there with them: Most of them were just sitting around on their bottoms cheering at a screen.
Post by
Squishalot
Could you imagine a white kid winning something over a bunch of black people and that white person getting singled out for the inspiration of beating all those black kids? lol. Assumption? No. There would be death threats to the writer of that article. Could you imagine a white kid on the NBA being called "an inspiration to white kids". It just doesn't happen.
Again - it's not about being black or being white, or even being successful at something dominated by the other race, it's about overcoming hurdles. The reason why the white guy in the NBA isn't necessarily 'especially' an inspiration to white kids is because although they're a minority, they don't have more hurdles to overcome than anyone else in the sport.
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