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Post by
Magician22773
Sorry for yet another nostalgia post.
When I started playing WoW, just before BC released, the process of leveling my toon to 60, then 70, was actually an enjoyable experience. It seemed that everything was such an acomplishment then. Every dungeon that was cleared, every gear upgrade, profession skillup...even simply discovering a new zone or area, was a thrill.
Even though I wanted to get to max level to see what all the talk was about, it wasn't THE priority, it was just another goal, one that at the time, seemed almost unobtainable. Every step along the way seemed to present a wonderful new challenge, every new dungeon or raid opened a new door when it was cleared. But those days seemed to come to an abrupt crashing end when WotLK released.
Now, as it has been repeatedly discussed, WoW is all about "end-game" content. Leveling a toon is all about how fast you can get to 80 so you can "start" playing the game. With a few rare exceptions, all the true content of both Old World and Outlands is skipped, professions are put off, and entire zones are abandoned.
I really feel sorry for new WoW players who have no idea what they are missing along the way, and who will never have the chance to enjoy the experiences that the original players had. I really think that somewhere along the way, Blizzard lost sight of the forest because of all the trees in the way. WoW is what it is today because of what it was
So my question is, if the game is going to be only about the latest content, why not just give new players the option of starting out at level 80, or at the least, 68. Whats really the point of making new players grind through days and days of play time through abandoned zones to get to where the game really "starts"?
The knee-jerk answer is simple....they need to learn to play their toon, but the reality is, they aren't really learning that much they way it is. I see new 80's all the time that have no idea what their rotations should be, what gear they need, what their spec should be.
Maybe its just me, but if they are going to make all the changes to XP, mounts, and things like RAF...why not just give the option to start in Northrend, or start at lvl 1?
Magiciann
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127599
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64407
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327680
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Post by
trendon
Now, as it has been repeatedly discussed, WoW is all about "end-game" content. Leveling a toon is all about how fast you can get to 80 so you can "start" playing the game. With a few rare exceptions, all the true content of both Old World and Outlands is skipped, professions are put off, and entire zones are abandoned.
I'm new and I can't agree more. I am currently 72 and I quickly realized this very point. With that, I decided to focus on having fun until I eventually get to 80. New to the whole Warcraft universe aside from the first two RTS games, I decided I wanted to do as many quests as I can my hands on; a chore made more enjoyable by the Loremaster and various other achievements.
As I was nearing my time to enter Outland, I couldn't get my quest log away from a full 25 quests. I was so mesmerized with the Loremaster of EK and Kalimdor that I didn't step a toe into Hellfire until I was 65. However, I am glad I did because there are some badass quest lines I would have missed out on if I just sped along; one that starts on the west side of EPL and ends in a crazy ass fight where you escort someone who went nuts and their father comes to save them ... whatever. Maybe it wasn't so great if I forgot what it was! :) Anyway, I had a blast doing that quest line, the Fallen Horde one, and one that was about 856 quests long that was a homage to the Legend of Zelda. Doing this also got me the Ambassador title at the tender level of 58, so I was proud to say that much.
Now, I am going through the same thing at 72.
"LFG Tombs, ShattHalls, Underbog, Steam; will pass on loot, just want achievements/quests" is what I've been typing for about two weeks now into LFG. I either get ignored or whispered, "you should be in (fill in instance)." Then I have to sit there and explain that I am a noob and I just want to absorb everything. Most applaud me on my effort and tell me to enjoy my time. But, I still never make it into the goddamn instances.
At the end of the night, I say, "Screw this, I just going to get all geared up, hit 80 and go solo everything." But, what fun would that be for me? Yeah, I am excited to see what this arena and Wintergrasp is all about, but I am in no rush. Let me enjoy this frigging game! Besides, each trip to an instance in a group - no matter how overpowered I am for the group - is a good lesson for me. I usually learn something new every time and meet some people that I assume will be valuable resources when I get a new character.
So, after that long rant, I know - at least partially - what you mean. Now let me get back to Terokker and kill mobs 10 levels below me for some random-ass quests before I hit 'Y' to see how many more I need.
Edit: The long road has also gotten me fairly wealthy without doing anything extraordinary like auction shopping or farming anything I don't need. I can afford my flying mount right now just from all of these quest rewards. And, Night Blade dropped for me out of a junkbox in one of the instances I was way too high for.
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292411
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367590
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Post by
wigg1es
I don't know what WOW you are playing. But there is always tons of players everywhere i go on my server. Between peoples alts and newbies just starting up there's been many a time were i gave up for the night b/c so many people were doing the same quests i was on.
As for instances, yeah maybe it takes a bit to find a group, but if you pay attention to your local chat or join a large guild you constantly find yourself in instances.I was coming to say pretty much the same thing. Between my guild with 300+ people and tons of alts and new players all over the place, I can get into pretty much any instance I want in about a half hour or less.
Just put your name in LFG then go quest and wait for the whisper. It will come. And keep checking LFM. Maybe there is the perfect group in there but no one is putting in the effort to send out the invites. Click the button 4 times and then ask in Party if everyone is okay with running said instance.
And when you do run across people that are good in groups and play well,
add them to your friends
. Ask first to make see if they will be interested in running instances in the future just to be polite, but I've never had anybody tell me not to add them. And ask to be added to their list, especially if you're a tank or healer.
Apparently people really don't know how to network anymore.
Post by
anywherenotes
What the hell? where's my 80?
Only noobs need 80 levels to learn rotations ... except some important skills aren't available before 80 ... so 1-79 is a waste of time.
Should brand new players start at 80? I guess not.
Should someone who has a couple of 80's be able to roll an 80 toon? definitely.
Will there be noob mages/warriors running around if anyone can roll an 80? of course, but they are noob warlocks and paladins right now. (I'm not picking on any class specifically, just listing them at random)
A good player of any class won't be a noob if they can get an 80 of any other class. But give a noob another class, and he'll keep on being a noob.
Now where the hell is my free 80?
Post by
pezz
I really think that somewhere along the way, Blizzard lost sight of the forest because of all the trees in the way.
For the most part, I agree with your post. I used to be pretty terrible at WoW, but I still played it, because exploring low level content and doing low level instances was fun. Now I don't bother with all that, I just want to level characters to 80 and do end-game content. However, thoughts like the one I quoted above annoy me. Yes, Blizzard made it easy to get to the level cap, but people seem to think this means Blizzard can be blamed for the fact that they don't run low level instances themselves. Every old world instance is still there, with the exception of 40 man naxx, which no one did anyways. All of the quests are still there. If you want to do them, do them. If there aren't four other people around when you want to do them, don't jump to the conclusion that this is because Blizzard lost their touch.
Post by
sporn1
Alright, I'm going to take a stab at this thread. Maybe I'm a little off point but the way I see it is they can't just let you start at a high level like 68 or whatever. The death knight I suppose was a compromise. Suppose blizzard had a system in place where after you leveled one character to 80 you could start every character there after at 55 like DKs or something, 58-60 whatever.
Well ok, so you do the first 60 levels once and never have to do them again if you don't want to. What percentage of players would still continue to level from 1? I'd say a small minority. Maybe very small. So this would leave brand new players with just themselves and other new players leveling in lower level areas. Not only would there be a drastic reduction in population in those zones, as if it isn't bad enough already, but no one would be around to run any instances, do group quests, and there wouldn't be any experienced players around to say "Hey, maybe try doing this" or to maybe answer noob questions in /1 or whatever.
I understand that that is what guilds are for etcetera but if you are totally new to wow or mmo's in general there is a huge learning curve to playing a game like this and it would be leaving the new players to fend for themselves until they get to the appropriate level where they find themselves severely handicapped against people who clicked a few buttons and got one of each class over level 60.
tl;dr I think the reason blizzard hasn't done something like this is because while it would be completely beneficial to veteran players it puts new players at an even greater handicap than they're already at starting new playing a game many people have been playing for years.
Post by
doublediamond410
So my question is... why not just give new players the option of starting out at level ... 68. ...
Although Death Knights begin at a moderately high level, there is a noticeable difference between that class and a normal class.
Death Knights, at Lvl60, have 16 standard class abilities that can be trained, ignoring talents. Warriors, however, have 33, more than double that amount. And druids have an astounding
55
, due their hybrid and varied nature.
When my brother-in-law offered to power level a paladin to Lvl80 for me so I could join in his raids as a main tank healer, I declined. Partly because I like having control over my character, but mostly because I was afraid of logging on and having no clue what to do, especially at 80.
Post by
Magician22773
Blizzard lost sight of the forest because of all the trees in the way. WoW is what it is today because of what it was
I think what I meant from this is somewhat misunderstood. I didn't mean to imply that Blizz had necessarily done something wrong, What i meane was, WoW has 11+ million players because of the thrill that it was to experience the game from the start. Personally, I have no problem with the changes that have been put in to make leveling faster and easier. In fact, that was the underlying purpose of this post.....why not just give the option of skipping leveling alltogether.
I realize that there is little that Blizz can do at this point. Old World is just that...Old, and it can never be what it was. Short of the "nostalgia servers" idea that has been presented a ton of times, what we have now is what we have to be happy with.
I also realize that some of this varies by server. the server I am currently on is a fairly new transfer server, and believe me, Old World is pretty much abandoned. Even with the guild I am in, with 300+ players, its hard to impossible to get into a low level group. At least 90% of our guildies have an 80, and with Naxx raids 2 nights a week, and Uldar 2 nights, it pretty much leaves leveling alts as a solo experience.
Sorry...my train of thought pretty much just derailed, so I'll cut it off before I start rambling!
Magiciann
Post by
justinc
A lot of your complaints can be explained by your server. Picking your sever is (in my opinion) the biggest choice you ever make while playing WoW. Some servers are full of 80's with best in slot gear and Naxx, EoE, and Sarth are considered "old world." Some servers are still full of guilds progressing in Naxx. Some servers have a big old world representation in terms of pre TBC guilds and lots of alts/new players. What you said about WoW being all about end game content is nothing new. It's been that day since day 1 but what made it different was everyone was around the same level so everyone was progressing through the same content at the same time. In theory, SFK was end game content at one point. To answer your questing asking why not just start at 80 or w/e a lot of people enjoy leveling. They enjoy what many people consider to be grueling and boring. They enjoy the 4564564 part quest chains that have you go and kill 50 of x mob then go collect 75 heads from that same mob but not all of them drop heads and then you are sent all the way across the map to talk to some dude who wants you to go find a chest that's right next to the mobs you killed 10 mins ago. That's what WoW is and always has been, it's just more noticeable now.
Edit- I didn't really read other replies, you sorta addressed what the first part of my post said on your last post.
Post by
329396
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Post by
wigg1es
I think everyone should do the content once, but not have to keep doing it over and over for alts.
So yea, you have to go from 1-80 the first time, but then if you want a priest alt, you can start at 55 or w/e. I think that would be fine.
I think there should be a limit though. You get to 80, then you can roll 2 characters (in addition to the DK) from 55. Everything other then that you have to roll from 1. If only, as mentioned, to keep the old world alive at least a little.
It would help out a lot on servers that struggle to find tanks and healers, but it wouldn't completely break the spirit of the game.
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