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Abortion Debate
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Post by
backwardscow
I remember reading something about this. In the '80s, there was a lot of crime. Then in the '90s, when Abortion was legalized, crime dropped significantly. Coincidence?
Post by
MyTie
I remember reading something about this. In the '80s, there was a lot of crime. Then in the '90s, when Abortion was legalized, crime dropped significantly. Coincidence?
Correlation doesn't prove causation. Some correlation is lended an amount of credit due to the logical link between the two items. I fail to see how the legalization of abortion dropped crime. The drop in the 90s was probably due to stricter punishments and crackdowns by the DEA.
Post by
Slimda
If NO (pro-choice stance):
What about the life lost?
It's not a life. It's a fetus, a life in making. It's like canceling a building in progress. It could probably become something superb, but it causes too many problems, and thus we remove it.
What is the difference between abortion and murder?
Pretty obvious. Murder is the act of killing another individual. Abortion is the act of removing an unwanted liability to your life through a mistake or accident.
What does 'choice' mean? Why shouldn't mothers get the choice to kill children already born?
A child born is a living human being. A fetus isn't a living human being, but a fetus. Choice simply means that you can abort the child-in-progress before it fully becomes a child.
If 'life' is something we cannot scientifically define in an unborn baby, then how is it acceptible for us to abitrarily decide to abort it?
Because it's not a human being yet.
The human species is stepping into a new age as we speak. Genetically engineered children. Abortions are merely a "childsplay" compared to what taboo-subjects we're going to be discussing in 5-10 years time.
Post by
87278
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Post by
Patty
Sometimes it can be the most loving decision to Abort a baby.
They may be born into a poor lifestyle, or they can not be cared for. They could also be huge disabilities which the parents would not be able to cope with, or that would make the child's life a living hell.
Imo...it's as simple as this: Sanctity of Life vs Quality of life.
What is it about life which is so sacred if it is like a living hell?
Also, miscarriages = natural abortions. It is the horrible truth. You do not question a woman who has a miscarriage, (I think I'm treading on egg-shells here) yet you question one who chooses that it is in nobody's best interests to have a child.
Also, if a woman is raped and impregnated, they may not want a constant reminder of the fact they were raped, which the child would be, although it's not the child's fault. Therefore, it is in both the mother and the child's best interests, as the mother could have mental issues, and the child may not be loved or shown compassion as much as if they had been concieved in a more loving way.
Post by
260787
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Post by
273605
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Post by
MyTie
Sometimes it can be the most loving decision to Abort a baby.I disagree. I'll leave it at that.They may be born into a poor lifestyle, or they can not be cared for.The 'poor lifestyle' reason is no reason to abort. Better off dead than poor makes no sense.They could also be huge disabilities which the parents would not be able to cope with, or that would make the child's life a living hell.I worked with developmentally disabled people, and an array of other disabilities for a year. No matter how disabled a person was, they still found enjoyment in something. I remember a lady who was profoundly retarded, she couldn't roll over in bed, or make eye contact. However, she would make it known that she wanted soft music playing in her room. How are we to decide that people like that are better off not having lived at all? How can we say what level of enjoyment they get out of life?Imo...it's as simple as this: Sanctity of Life vs Quality of life.Even if humans COULD judge future quality of life (they can't), 1% quality is still better than none.What is it about life which is so sacred if it is like a living hell?Give me an example of a predictible condition a baby could be born into that would difinitively cause this pleaseAlso, miscarriages = natural abortions. It is the horrible truth. You do not question a woman who has a miscarriage, (I think I'm treading on egg-shells here) yet you question one who chooses that it is in nobody's best interests to have a child.This is a pretty radical idea. Could you think it over a bit more and tell me if it still makes sense to you? Abortions and miscarriages are both horrible, but they are =/=. As for the last part, it is in the child's best interest not to die.Also, if a woman is raped and impregnated, they may not want a constant reminder of the fact they were raped, which the child would be, although it's not the child's fault. Therefore, it is in both the mother and the child's best interests, as the mother could have mental issues, and the child may not be loved or shown compassion as much as if they had been concieved in a more loving way.Could this arguement be used to kill a kid that was the product of a rape? Even if this made sense to every single american, it would account for less than 1% of abortions performed... out of hundreds of thousands...
Patty, I think you and I hold completely opposite viewpoints on abortion. So opposite, in fact, that I face extreme difficulty seeing this from your point of view. I hope we can remain civil as we debate from such extreme sides.
Post by
327953
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Post by
327953
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Post by
MyTie
a society should NEVER allow abortion..
reason being, your killing your own kind..
doctors also have a agenda dont you forget that.. abortion costs alot of money..
a evil doctor could easily tell you that the baby has no chance so that he can perform the operation. in a recession like this, u would expect alot of unnecessary abortions!
I disagree with abortion too, but out of fundamental morality reasons. Of course a doctor could be wrong, or greedy, but I don't think that would be the cause to outlaw abortion. Abortion should be outlawed, because it is abortion. It seems so simple to me.
Post by
327953
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Post by
MyTie
but if you look at the flip side of the coin,
say that you are a female, and you were somewhat forced to be pregnant by someone u dont even know. if i were to put myself in the shoes of a that person, i actually might consider it. i guess it's the situation...
i'm not saying most people get abortion cause their raped. majority of people gets abortion because they want it aborted because their boyfriend or husband failed..
the blame should be put on the boyfriend // husband for the beginning initiation, and it leaves the female to be the guilty one if they do proceed with the abortion.
On the flip side of any coin... in any situation... in any circumstance... at any juncture in time... for any reason... with no exception:
I would never opt for abortion.
Post by
Patty
I am not pro-abortion to the extreme, where it is that if you didn't plan the child, or it's not the right gender, you get rid of it.
I am not pro-Abortion, but pro-choice. The mother has the right for a choice. I know someone who had an abortion, they could not cater for the child in any way. She had a child at 18, and wasn't ready for another one (emotionally, she got Post-Natal Depression etc.) And was told her body couldn't cope with childbirth. It was either abort the child, die giving birth to it leaving her 1 year old daughter parent-less (the father abandoned the child), or survive the birth for a high chance of post-natal depression again. Not to mention if the mother died in childbirth, had damaging effects on her mental/physical health...the guilt that the child might feel, which thus lowers their quality and enjoyment of life. Of course, this is a "what if..." idea.
I can hardly see how this is wrong to abort a child. You should consider what you have already before you think about keeping a child, and this can not be argued for conception because certain circumstances make it impossible to do so.
And abortions are induced miscarriages. It's a fact.
Also Mytie, the best decision is in the Eye of the beholder, hence why this debate is happening.
Post by
172996
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Post by
313143
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Post by
MyTie
@Patty - Why does a mother have the right to choose if her unborn child lives or dies? If she does have that choice, why does it matter if the child has been born or not? As you can see, this is a circular arguement. Perhaps you can provide some views that haven't been posed?
@Zap - Everyone has their own morals and ethics that help them to choose the option that is best for them. Just because person A wouldn't choose it and that person B would, doesn't mean it's wrong.
I whole heartedly agree. The problem is, you forgot person C in this equasion. If person A believs that person C is not a person and can be aborted, and person B (me) believes that is murder, person B shouldn't just keep it to himself.
"It's not your business" doesn't work in an abortion debate. Sorry.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Also, miscarriages = natural abortions. It is the horrible truth. You do not question a woman who has a miscarriage, (I think I'm treading on egg-shells here) yet you question one who chooses that it is in nobody's best interests to have a child.
So you also believe murder = natural death? Forget egg-shells, I think you're treading on broken glass at this point.
Post by
172996
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Post by
MyTie
Zaputo-
The first half of your post tries to rationalize abortion based on your opinion of when life starts for a baby. My whole point is that you can't know that. Since you can't know that, you shouldn't be so quick to support abortion.
The last half of your post tries to rationalize abortion based on 'it will happen anyway' and that 'it will be done in shady and dangerous situations'. The same goes for just about every single law we have, but that doesn't mean the things that are illegal should be legal. Making the abortions illegal will make it more dangerous for the women that still go get abortions, however it will make things much safer for the kids who are not aborted anymore. You have a shakey arguement, at best.
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