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Post by
Achloryn
What's cool is that after 3.2, with the cast time reduction on frostbolt, we don't need to stack as much haste to do DF->FB, ILx2 combos.
Not to mention each frostbolt will be hitting for 300-400 more damage
now then... lets see if all of this makes it live.. i don't want to hold my breath simply because i don't want to get let down...
bah.. i can say that all i want, but.. i find myself extremely excited.
Post by
nickseng
What's cool is that after 3.2, with the cast time reduction on frostbolt, we don't need to stack as much haste to do DF->FB, ILx2 combos.
Not to mention each frostbolt will be hitting for 300-400 more damage
now then... lets see if all of this makes it live.. i don't want to hold my breath simply because i don't want to get let down...
bah.. i can say that all i want, but.. i find myself extremely excited.
Actually, I'm a a bit worried about all this nice Frost changes. Not that I begrudge them anything, just that this might actually make Frost overtake Arcane.
Call me selfish, but I have visions of Arcane in TBC endgame. :(
Post by
Achloryn
how would frost overtake arcane? do you mean in pve or pvp? cause it seems (in pve anyway) that, yes arcane scales for crap, but the arcane blasting seems to more than make up for that. I can't see anyone hitting for 13-14k with frostbolts (outside of gimmick fights) with just raid buffs. and there's really very little that can compare with a missile barrage proc.
i don't see deep frost overtaking arcane simply just cause yeah.. it's gonna scale a bit better.. but it still doesn't have the ability to be buffed as well as arcane will.
Post by
429506
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
nickseng
how would frost overtake arcane? do you mean in pve or pvp? cause it seems (in pve anyway) that, yes arcane scales for crap, but the arcane blasting seems to more than make up for that. I can't see anyone hitting for 13-14k with frostbolts (outside of gimmick fights) with just raid buffs. and there's really very little that can compare with a missile barrage proc.
i don't see deep frost overtaking arcane simply just cause yeah.. it's gonna scale a bit better.. but it still doesn't have the ability to be buffed as well as arcane will.
Well, Arcane is currently anywhere from 3-5% behind FB, and frost is 10-15% behind FB.
That puts Frost around 7-10% behind Arcane.
The coefficient change will actually increase Frost's DPS by about 3-4%, and the cast time reduction will only serve to close that gap.
by my rough calculations, Frost will get very close to Arcane in PVE after this change, and with better gear, possibly overtake it as well.
My solution? Buff Arcane as well. :D
Post by
236298
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
nickseng
My solution? Buff Arcane as well. :D
You put the big grin in there, but I don't think it's a joke. The only reason (and I mean ONLY) that I raided arcane is the 6% hit rating bump. Why would I raid anything but fire once I can reach the higher hit caps (not counting trick fights, of course)?
There's whole 'nother argument around matching hit rating requirements with scaling, that I'll skip for the time being.
The grin there is not meant to mean I was joking, so much as, I said all that in a friendly manner.
Sometimes, people get all hot and bothered in here over the slightest inclination, that I've found it safer to just add a little grin in my posts so that they know I wasn't being hostile. :)
And hey, I've been pushing for an Arcane buff for the longest time.
Post by
Achloryn
don't worry nick, i didn't think you were being hostile towards me :)
i know a lot of people who would be excited to see frost start getting buffed in pve.. i'm not entirely sure that blizzard's intention was to do this, but if it was than bravo. they managed to potentially fix a lot of mage's QQ without announcing it.
and buffing arcane would also cause a lot of cheering for mages across WoW... but if they're buffing frost this much, i'm not so sure they're gonna make arcane better... it just... idk. /shrug. blizzard has been really bad about making EVERYONE happy. (aside from the fact that it's really impossible). they only seem like they try making certain groups happy with each big patch.
Post by
292516
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Achloryn
@ nickseng's worries of frost>arcane:
Just hit a 20.5k crit with AB on razorscale....
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Daggerspine&n=Corrupt%C3%AEon
(
real weapon
+
sp)
and my trinkets are F'ed up currently also.. im too lazy to get back on and switch my gear back to reg.
Until frostbolt goes faster
AND
hits above that (even with my crappy gear) then there really isn't any need to worry.
i dunno.. while arcane mages are evocating, frost mages are still whipping away frostbolts at top speed. granted, that's only a few seconds every couple minutes, but on long fights (you mentioned razorscale.. lol) that can add up.
Post by
nickseng
@ nickseng's worries of frost>arcane:
Just hit a 20.5k crit with AB on razorscale....
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Daggerspine&n=Corrupt%C3%AEon
(
real weapon
+
sp)
and my trinkets are F'ed up currently also.. im too lazy to get back on and switch my gear back to reg.
Until frostbolt goes faster
AND
hits above that (even with my crappy gear) then there really isn't any need to worry.
Eh, it's probably nothing, but it'll really help if they would just do something with Arcane scaling.
Post by
turulo
And, once again, .... Frost isn't/wasn't fine.On point right here. The more I play as Frost, the more I can see the underlying issues with the Mage class.
In any case, there are some PvP issues with Mages that the patch notes don't seem to address.
1. We need a real 4-pc set bonus. When the 2-pc from PvE (T7) is better than the 4-pc from PvP, there is a problem.
2. Shatter needs to be 100%, period. Having it fail due to RNG is a horrible thing. And if we don't get Haste, we can't compete with other classes, so stacking crit is out the window.
3. Every single other class has higher crit rates than us. If we stack crit gear, we miss out on important stats.
4. In all reality, fix DK's, Druids, and Ret Paladins, and you'll see Mages doing much better in PvP.
5. Frostbolt hits really weak. Doesn't scale as well as other abilities. Chaos Bolt hits for as hard as Shatter, but it's a 1.5 second cast on a short CD.
6. Having to downgrade gear in terms of iLvL is costing us a lot of our power in PvP to get haste. No other class needs to do this since they already have their optimal stats on their main set gear.
This is post is the one I feel is 100% what I think needs to be changed for frost mages. No more no less.
I have a hunter and a druid and right about dinging 80 they had near 30% crit for hunter and 40% for druid. Getting gear for those toons never forced me to get lower crit than that. Why mages have so much lower base crit? I will never understand.
About the 100% crit shatter, why not? shamen have a 100% insta crit that AFAIK that has 6 secs CD. I don't see how this can be unbalanced (given the crappy damage the Frostbolt does).
The PVP set gear bonuses SUCK and I cannot believe people don't bring this issue up more often.
And I like the idea to reduce the eternal casting times that mages have to pay. We have the longer casting times and ironically our casts do weak damage WTF?
Finally I want to bring this up because I cannot believe what ghostcrawler said about mages. Is he on drugs or what? Where... how come.... almost everything he said in the mage Q&A is full of crap. I feel humilliated about the lightiness about how he talks as if he "knows" somehow the state of the mage. WTF is he playing? lineage? come on. And he had the nerve to say L2play...
Post by
292516
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
StrangerWifCandy
Sorry to crush everyone's hopes, but frostbolt didn't get a coefficient change, it turns out Winter's Chill is bugged and increases damage by 5% on the target.
Post by
120665
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Achloryn
Sorry to crush everyone's hopes, but frostbolt didn't get a coefficient change, it turns out Winter's Chill is bugged and increases damage by 5% on the target.
/sigh...
have a source for it so i can crush my dreams completely?
Post by
292516
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Achloryn
the MS effect given by permafrost is one of the changes i'm most looking forward to.
i think all that means is that blizzard is trying to say, without admitting it, that even the mage "pvp spec" is broken for pvp... which is what a lot of us have been kinda TRYING to say for a while.
Post by
292516
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
120665
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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