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10.2.7
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Pures vs Hybrids
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Post by
262937
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Post by
174429
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Post by
daboss40
Find me a ret paladin who can tank Naxxramas or Ulduar (effectively) and then, only then, will paladins be OP.
I think a Ret paly could tank 10 naxx in pvp gear (to become uncritable throuugh resil) and with 3 good healers. I mean it wouldnt be practicle but i have thought about tanking 10 naxx in cat form on my druid just for the fun of it. Kind of off the point here...
I'd just like to add that skill and gear makes up the larger difference in the whole Pure Vs. Hybrid debate. I play a feral Druid and while we are slightly OP (hence the nerf next patch) im still pulling ~500 more dps on most boss fights and im not the best geared in the guild (a hunter is and he usually comes in second). Anyway given similar gear levels there is no decent reason to not be within 5-10% of the dps of the person "topping the meter"
Go to youtube and watch videos of what bosses can do to tanks that forget to check their defense cap, then try that again. Despite what you 'think', just because a pally wears plate, doesn't mean we won't get f**ked up by a raid boss that gets a crit or two off. Resil has nothing to do with it. For the love of God, get that thought out of your head.
Anyways, Hybrids aren't asking to be inherently better at DPS than pures, all we ask is that If we devote all our time and energy mastering our class/spec rotations and getting the best gear, I shouldn't have the same DPS as a rogue who doesn't.
Is that so unreasonable?
Post by
cxnecroxc
A ret paladin can heal, tank and dps all the instances from wailing caverns to halls of stone. Just keep 3 sets of gear.
i agree and thats the perk of rolling a ret in anything except a level cap heroic or raid, jack of all trades, can do it all just needs switch gear... same with warriors, priests, dk's and shammies(except warriors and priests can only tank/dps or heal/dps and enhance shammies can do same as ret just not as well can tank dps and heal{and yes enhance shammies can tank frost shock and used to have shield spec in enhance tree})
Post by
307698
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Post by
daboss40
Simply put, a pure dps player with equal gear level and skill to a hybrid dps player should always put out more damage. The difference should not be negligible, either.
This topic shouldn't even be up for debate or discussion. The fact that this doesn't apply to the current game is a sad testament to how little attention Blizzard truly pays to class balance and participation in PvE content.
What do you mean? Blizzard has stated that Pure DPS classes will do a small amount of damage more than an equally geared Hybrid DPS, but the difference is negligible at best. How does Blizz not pay attention? People asked for equality, and they got it. There was a time when all that I could do as a Pally in end-game raids was heal. Now, we're at the point where, given enough devotion and gearing, we can tank, heal and DPS with the best! (but not simultaneously).
What's so hard to comprehend about wanting that kind of balance?
Post by
221841
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307698
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221841
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Post by
daboss40
but as you can see players arent knocked back for being pure's or hybrids, as long as you play your class well your a welcome participant in a raid. and if someone that can fill your role better comes along too bad so sad you improve, i wont admit there is a problem with the game, just a problem with players unable to accept they might not be as good at their class/role as they might think
Not entirely true. Blizzard has stated that they've designed pure DPS to do ~5% more damage than hybrid DPS. But your point still remains. 5% is enough to make a difference at equal skill levels, but will dissipate quickly if one player has a better grip on their class.
If it were up to me, there'd be no difference, but 5% is close enough. That's precisely how it should be IMO. If you still find yourself being outdone by hybrids, L2P. Simple.
Post by
221841
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Post by
242691
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Post by
anywherenotes
If a Rogue gets to 80 and decides that he wants to try healing or tanking, he has to roll up a whole new character and spend weeks of his life getting that character to 80, then farm heroics, rep rewards, raids, etc... to do that role.
If a Kitty druid (same playstyle as a rogue... not relevant, just good comparison), decides that they would like to tank or heal (or even caster DPS), they have to farm a couple of heroics, buy some gear off of the AH/rep rewards, or they have already collected a great set based on offspec rolls (pures don't even know what offsepc rolls are) and they are ready to go.
Don't you think that those pure classes should be rewared just a LITTLE for the massive amount of inflexibility that they have?
Right now Blizz says that pure classes should perform about 5% better than hybrids given equal gear and skill... while I personally think that it should be more like 10%, is 5% really worth worrying about?
Personally I think dps is relaxing, and tanking/healing is stressful.
For that reason, if a hybrid wants to dps, they should do same or better dps than a pure. A pure though should be able to CC better than a hybrid (who might have no CC at all), thus every group would need pure, but just to dps - hybrids would be fine.
Post by
160129
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Post by
Abandonment
I'm not sure where the issue is.
I was under the impression that the "pure" dps classes were topping the dps charts on most boss fights.
Check out:
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/classrank/6
Notice the amount of times you see locks, hunters, mages and rogues in the top 4.
Naxx? Really?
In the ulduar rankings, Hunters are in the top 4 5 times, the rest being rogues, warrior, pallies, DKs and the occasional mage/lock.
So your impression was incorrect to a degree.
Post by
anywherenotes
If a Rogue gets to 80 and decides that he wants to try healing or tanking, he has to roll up a whole new character and spend weeks of his life getting that character to 80, then farm heroics, rep rewards, raids, etc... to do that role.
If a Kitty druid (same playstyle as a rogue... not relevant, just good comparison), decides that they would like to tank or heal (or even caster DPS), they have to farm a couple of heroics, buy some gear off of the AH/rep rewards, or they have already collected a great set based on offspec rolls (pures don't even know what offsepc rolls are) and they are ready to go.
Don't you think that those pure classes should be rewared just a LITTLE for the massive amount of inflexibility that they have?
Right now Blizz says that pure classes should perform about 5% better than hybrids given equal gear and skill... while I personally think that it should be more like 10%, is 5% really worth worrying about?
Personally I think dps is relaxing, and tanking/healing is stressful.
For that reason, if a hybrid wants to dps, they should do same or better dps than a pure. A pure though should be able to CC better than a hybrid (who might have no CC at all), thus every group would need pure, but just to dps - hybrids would be fine.
Since cc is so useful in a raiding scenario.
CC is useful to some degree, for example kiting gluth's adds. I know you can say that hybrids can do it. However that ability could be nerfed so that only pures could. And CC could be added to all/most boss fights.
Lets look at it from another point of view:
Two people who like to dps on rogue and warrior, they level up both. One of them likes warrior more and the other likes rogue more. So the one that likes warrior more will have 10% less dps than the one that likes rogue more? Both of them can tank, because both of them have the 2 toons at max level.
Is playstyle not important? Should the person who likes warrior, dps on a rogue?
Post by
195760
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Post by
Abandonment
Druids will never be Rogues.
Thanks Sherlock!
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79224
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Post by
160129
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