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[3.2 paladin changes]
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Post by
263280
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MischievousLoki
"Righteousness can remain a tanking seal."
That made me pee myself laughing.
They meant it can remain the seal that no one uses, ever, for any reason, the end.
Wait, that's not true, I guess you use it for leveling 1-20
Post by
Squishalot
Ok, since there are a couple of people talking about the Protribution spec...
The big changes are:
1) Block value on items increased
2) ShoR damage decreased
3) SoB damage to be changed (to who knows what)
3) SoB is to be removed
4) SoV is to be the new catch-all DPS seal, due to the huge bonus to damage on 5 stacks.
(SoV is to scale 33% on 5 stacks)
At the very least, you'll need one pally in the raid sealing with SoV to build up stacks, and the rest can use
SoB
SoC, possibly giving you both benefits. Or we can go back to the days of seal weaving every 12 seconds to keep the SoV proc up.
5) Crusader Strike to be reduced to 4 sec cooldown
6) New Paladin-Only Argent Crusade mount
(btw, svirve, I think the reason I figured SoB wouldn't proc on ShoR is because SoV doesn't, to the best of my memory, but I can't quite remember.
Anyway, moot point now.
)
So it would seem that points 1 and 2 are offsetting, but that's hardly the case. At the moment, Protribution suggests that you stack Strength rather than block value in order to get your ShoR damage up. If BV has double the weighting that it used to (minus 30%), that'll change gearing considerations. Having said that, we haven't actually done any weighting yet, so no need to stress, better that 3.2 comes out and we see what happens, rather than get ourselves into a flurry over a spec now, only to have it ripped apart when 3.2 appears.
With SoV being the new prime seal, we'll need abilities that can quickly proc in order to get to 5 stacks as quickly as possible. Protribution only has melee and HotR (and maybe ShoR). With a 2.5sec weapon, that means it'll take around 12 seconds to get 5 procs. Retribution will have melee, Crusader Strike, Divine Storm - it can get procs in about 6 seconds (two melee, two crusader strike, one divine storm), or about half the time. Not as big a deal in a long boss fight, but probably a consideration in shorter ones at least.
As for the mount... that's just cool =) You can't say that won't affect us!
Edited because I can't read =__=;;
Post by
MischievousLoki
Ok, since there are a couple of people talking about the Protribution spec...
The big changes are:
...
SoB = Gone
SoC = Replaces it in terms of functionality minus the masochism.
Not sure how you missed that and then made a whole big post about it. But I suppose you could always just replace SoB with SoC in your post and it'd mostly make sense.
Post by
Squishalot
Ok, since there are a couple of people talking about the Protribution spec...
The big changes are:
...
SoB = Gone
SoC = Replaces it in terms of functionality minus the masochism.
Not sure how you missed that and then made a whole big post about it. But I suppose you could always just replace SoB with SoC in your post and it'd mostly make sense.
Oh gah. I completely missed that line - I only saw the 'less enamoured with' and thought that they're pushing us away from it, not removing it completely. Thanks for hitting me over the head with that.
Post by
355037
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
babysealclubber
the really only big thing about healadin was that they could endlessly ONE target at a time (bacon tossed in there of course). No HoTs sucked, no AoE cures sucked, one instant heal without lucking a proc.
Now get better bacon, a HoT ONLY if shield is up(unless i read that wrong) which is also a short lived / moderately expensive cast, less int, a lot less mana regen... for a shallow healing class all kinda sounds bad to me.
but maybe the respec for holy / prot to get better shields is a neat idea.
Not trying to whine but maybe extend the timers that each spell last would be a good idea to help since then you dont have to recast bacon every minute (without glyph) and shield every 30 sec (without talents). Hell make bacon 30 mins so we can heal raids more with single healing targeting spells.
Post by
zoomie
Change to BoS is disappointing. One would've hoped that it would stack with Kings - but that'll do, I suppose.
I don't think you understand the point to this. If a prot pally was the only paladin in a 5 man or 10 man run, he had a choice to make. Kings for more health or sanc for more mana. Now some people would say that 3% damage redution from sanc makes up for the loss of kings. But those people are completely retarded because 3% damage reduction is nowhere near 10% more stamina.
Usually people would put kings on themselves to get more health for bosses that hit harder. Harder hits meant you needed more health, and you got your mana back from spiritual attunement. Sanc for softer hitting bosses because you don't need the health and you wont be getting as much mana from spiritual attunement.
Now, there is no choice. Kings for 10% stamina, or sanc for 10% stamina, 3% damage reduction, and some mana regen from avoidance. The point to this change is that blizzard is completely retard proofing this class. And if you didn't see why they made this change then you must be one of the retards its intended for.
Post by
zoomie
So Hand of Reckoning will do damage to PvE mobs but not to people, so couldn't a ret pally taunt when say, emalon is casting nove and thne have the tank taunt him back when he's almost done casting, considering he will not run towards the ret pally because he's casting, in my not-so-great ret gear i have 5k ap raid buffed this could be another decent instant attack for ret as long as you communicate with your tank.
Quite useful for arenas when a ret pally is being targetted
I am quite interested on what this will do live because i can see a change coming
No. BAAAAD idea. Taunts have diminishing returns. Meaning, bosses and mobs go immune to taunts if it gets taunted a lot in a short period. If you and other ret paladins purposly taunt a mob or boss, your tank might taunt and see those 6 letters IMMUNE pop up and your stuck with the boss until hes on longer immune to taunts. If that 2-3k taunt is worth completely stopping your dps because you die is worth it, then go for it. Plus it forces the boss to attack you for 3 seconds no matter what. So even if hes casting hes going to turn to you and whack you unless his cast is long enough to recognize hes casting, taunt, let the 3 second thing wear off, and hope the tank can taunt back without it being immune.
Post by
zoomie
I couldn't stop laughing when i read this part earlier:
"Depending on who you ask, Retribution paladins are either perceived as being in need of improvements to make them stronger or are in need of changes to make them less powerful. We are really happy with the overall changes to the Seal and Judgement system from Lich King. However, Ret still has some problems.
There aren’t enough buttons to push and they are all limited by cooldowns, allowing Ret paladins to have a lot of up-front burst without requiring a lot of skill or timing to actually hit those buttons
(now after the opening moves of a fight, we think things get a lot more interesting because now the paladin’s defenses, healing and dispelling can come into play). "
One of the few times blizzard has almost flat out said a specific class was OP for a specific reason, at least from what i've seen. Not saying that there isn't always pretty much an OP class/spec or something etc but it was so fun to see :)
Anyways my friends main is a retter(i have a leveling one also), and he luled too
It is because those stupid welfare pvp losers who suck so bad at the game they can't even raid. People cry about ret paladins in pvp because of their burst damage is too much, so they need nerfed. But in pve ret paladins aren't topping the damage charts, so they need to be buffed. It is more of the never ending cycle of buff pve, pvp cries. nerf pvp, it hurts pve twice as hard. I am still $%^&ed off at the exorcism change when they said it is no longer usable on character pets. It worked fine before but when people cried about paladins burst damage in arenas, some people took it a step further and said its too hard on the pets. Now you can't even use it on warlock pets, which are demons. Holy wrath and turn evil still work on them, but nope not exorcism! It is the never ending balance that this stupid dumbass company we call blizzard can never ever make. Blizzard needs to completely delete pvp from the game and let the welfare losers who are horrible leave the game. Then there wont be any more nerfs.
Post by
Synectics
Blizzard needs to completely delete pvp from the game and let the welfare losers who are horrible leave the game. Then there wont be any more nerfs.
Go play LOTR Online if you want nothing but PvE. Or, accept that the game will never be fully balanced. There's a "Cancel Subscription" if you don't care for what Blizzard is doing to the game.
One of the few times blizzard has almost flat out said a specific class was OP for a specific reason, at least from what i've seen. Not saying that there isn't always pretty much an OP class/spec or something etc but it was so fun to see :)
I think you misread that. It stated, "...have a lot of up-front burst without requiring a lot of skill or timing to actually hit those buttons."
That doesn't mean a class is OP. That means the class is very easy to play. Whether you press one button, or have to enter the Konami code frontwards, backwards, and upside down, a class's DPS, healing, or tanking abilities are still set by what the abilities your input does.
Just because Retadins are easy to play doesn't make them OP. People complained they were OP because we had so much burst damage. Nerf the burst, and we aren't OP... but still retardedly easy to play. :/
Basically, Blizzard said even a mentally challenged monkey could roll his face across the keyboard and still do 3k damage. :P
Post by
BristolUTD
Does the holy change meen we'll need to stack Mp5 again ? And is FoL sapming coming back ?
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Synectics
Last I checked Ret would still play in a mentally retarded way. Except we're going to be keyboard punching rather than facerolling.
I'm not sure that's an improvement.
Didn't say they were making us very complex to play, only that being simple doesn't mean we're OP. :P
And hey, I'm okay with that change. My face is getting sore.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Dhonorga
I've just made an estimate of the ret mana amministration with the 4 seconds CS cd:
With JotW+ SoC glyph=25%+8%=33% we have a mana regen of 33% over 8 seconds
in this 8 seconds we press:
CSx2(with the glipg of CS the mana cost is reduced from 16% to 13%) ---->13% +
Judgement ---->5% +
DS ---->12% +
Exo ---->10% =
__________
40%
As you can see 40 - 33= 7%. We loose that mana every 8 seconds
(I know that the cd of DS is 10 seconds so we won't use that always in an 8 seconds rotation; the same thing for the Exo. But I think the difference is little)
So if we can use now CS 33%more often(from 6 sec to 4 the cd is shorter of a 33%) (and in the same way it does 33%less damage), I'll hope it's going to cost 33% less mana too
Post by
399897
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
228908
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
Change to BoS is disappointing. One would've hoped that it would stack with Kings - but that'll do, I suppose.
I don't think you understand the point to this. If a prot pally was the only paladin in a 5 man or 10 man run, he had a choice to make. Kings for more health or sanc for more mana. Now some people would say that 3% damage redution from sanc makes up for the loss of kings. But those people are completely retarded because 3% damage reduction is nowhere near 10% more stamina.
Usually people would put kings on themselves to get more health for bosses that hit harder. Harder hits meant you needed more health, and you got your mana back from spiritual attunement. Sanc for softer hitting bosses because you don't need the health and you wont be getting as much mana from spiritual attunement.
Now, there is no choice. Kings for 10% stamina, or sanc for 10% stamina, 3% damage reduction, and some mana regen from avoidance. The point to this change is that blizzard is completely retard proofing this class. And if you didn't see why they made this change then you must be one of the retards its intended for.
Gawsh, someone's reading into things a bit deeply. I know perfectly well the toss-up between BoS and BoK and I know why they made the change. I just think that Blizz's approach to 'retard proofing' it leaves stuff to be desired - all I was suggesting was that it would've been nice if it did stack.
So if we can use now CS 33%more often(from 6 sec to 4 the cd is shorter of a 33%) (and in the same way it does 33%less damage), I'll hope it's going to cost 33% less mana too
Yeah, I'd pay that. But to your point, you'd only use Exo one in every 2 sets of 'rotations'. So really, your maximum uptime cost in mana is:
DS: 12%*(8/10) = 9.6%
Exo: 10%*(8/15) = 5.33%
Judgement: 5%
Crusader Strike: 12.8%
Total: 32.8%, vs 27% from JotW, not sure where you got the SoC glyph from.
Divine Plea will give you back 25% every 60 seconds, or another 3.3% per 8 seconds.
So 32.8 vs 30.3, with no change to Crusader Strike mana. It doesn't need to move by that much.
Post by
kazaa15
tbh they basicly ruined ret palas in pvp the SOC seal they said they buff sure NERFED the judge dmg but does 36% more wep dmg thats alot ...... removing SOM/B well we all knew pll was QQing about the dmg from it , they say they buffed SOV well tbh they just made it even crapper lol 5 stacks till u can acually do dmg then if u are fighting a preist or some1 that can dispel it ur compeleted ****ed they just nerfed the **** out of palas in pvp but buffed em abit more in pve reli pointless tbh thanks for compleleted getting rid of palas in pvp -.- stupid blizzard
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