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Moroccan girl commits suicide after being forced to marry her rapist
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Publicado por
MyTie
It's not any different then the laws in the south of the US that have been changed over the years, especially since the Civil Rights movement.
It is different, because the laws HAVE changed in the South. The laws haven't yet changed there. This reeks of "marginalization". Do not trivialize the issue by comparing it to US history. You did this last time we had a discussion about Islam. Why the need to take a horrible circumstance, and make it sound "normal"?
Publicado por
Adamsm
It's not any different then the laws in the south of the US that have been changed over the years, especially since the Civil Rights movement.
It is different, because the laws HAVE changed in the South. The laws haven't yet changed there. This reeks of "marginalization". Do not trivialize the issue by comparing it to US history. You did this last time we had a discussion about Islam. Why the need to take a horrible circumstance, and make it sound "normal"?
I'm not for god sakes! But what you are saying has nothing to do with the issue at hand! MyTie, you linked the type of Islam that is practiced in Morocco; I read through that, and they don't have a law that forces a victim to marry the rapist....THIS IS A LOCAL LAW FOR WHERE THE GIRL LIVES NOT COUNTRY WIDE!
Edit: Stop trying to tie radical Islamic views into every single !@#$ing debate already!
Publicado por
MyTie
I'm not for god sakes! But what you are saying has nothing to do with the issue at hand! MyTie, you linked the type of Islam that is practiced in Morocco; I read through that, and they don't have a law that forces a victim to marry the rapist....THIS IS A LOCAL LAW FOR WHERE THE GIRL LIVES NOT COUNTRY WIDE!
Edit: Stop trying to tie radical Islamic views into every single !@#$ing debate already!
Here you go bud.
That is an article showing that Moroccans agree with me that Islamic law is the root cause in THE SAME CASE we are talking about in this thread.
Article 475 of the Moroccan penal code allows for the 'kidnapper' of a minor to marry his victim to escape prosecution, and it has been used to justify a traditional practice of making a rapist marry his victim to preserve the honour of the woman's family.So you were wrong about this not having to do with Islamic law, and you were wrong about this being local. Now to see if you admit you were wrong. Come on. Just once.
Publicado por
Adamsm
Then.....CHANGE THE *!@#ING LAW! Which is what I've been saying all through this thread.
And I was wrong; I'm sorry; but not in how you regard things in relation to anything that has to do with Islam.
Publicado por
MyTie
Then.....CHANGE THE *!@#ING LAW! Which is what I've been saying all through this thread.
And I was wrong; I'm sorry; but not in how you regard things in relation to anything that has to do with Islam.
No one is aruging that the law shouldn't be changed. What I am saying is FURTHER. The middle east needs continuing pressure put on it to change all of the Islamic fundamentalist laws that enable these atrocities. I'm saying this, and pushing against the social double standard that people apply to Islam, by not calling a duck a duck.
Publicado por
buzz3070
Then.....CHANGE THE *!@#ING LAW! Which is what I've been saying all through this thread.
And I was wrong; I'm sorry; but not in how you regard things in relation to anything that has to do with Islam.
No one is aruging that the law shouldn't be changed. What I am saying is FURTHER. The middle east needs continuing pressure put on it to change all of the Islamic fundamentalist laws that enable these atrocities. I'm saying this, and pushing against the social double standard that people apply to Islam, by not calling a duck a duck.
I completely disagree what the middle east needs is the west to finally get out of their countries and for once let them do things themselves.
Publicado por
MyTie
I completely disagree what the middle east needs is the west to finally get out of their countries and for once let them do things themselves.
How cultural!
You mean hang people who don't conform to their religions, and develop nuclear weapons so they can hold other nations hostage? How cultural!
Publicado por
buzz3070
I completely disagree what the middle east needs is the west to finally get out of their countries and for once let them do things themselves.
How cultural!
You mean hang people who don't conform to their religions, and develop nuclear weapons so they can hold other nations hostage? How cultural!
Yes, minus the nuclear weapons part. From a western perspective it is wrong, from their perspective it is right, who is to say what perspective is the right one?
Publicado por
Adamsm
I completely disagree what the middle east needs is the west to finally get out of their countries and for once let them do things themselves.
How cultural!
You mean hang people who don't conform to their religions, and develop nuclear weapons so they can hold other nations hostage? How cultural!
*cough*Hiroshima*cough*
Edit: Yes, I've always found the nuclear weapon argument to be the biggest piece of global hypocrisy in existence; Oh the rest of the world can disarm their nuclear weapons, but you know...we'll just keep a few(just in case you know).
Publicado por
MyTie
Yes, minus the nuclear weapons part. From a western perspective it is wrong, from their perspective it is right, who is to say what perspective is the right one?
So, you are saying that hanging people for their religious views, and forcing rape victims to marry the rapist, and treating women like property, and honor killings, and treating people like slaves... all might be a matter of perspective, and NOT a matter of right and wrong? This is all just a matter of perspective? How cultural!
Publicado por
MyTie
*cough*Hiroshima*cough*
More marginalization? For some reason, since the US did some horrible things, then we should not demand just treatment for humans?
Have you ever done anything wrong, Adamsm? If so, then by your logic you shouldn't really judge anyone or anything, and thus should probably leave the debate. Sorry bro.
Publicado por
buzz3070
Yes, minus the nuclear weapons part. From a western perspective it is wrong, from their perspective it is right, who is to say what perspective is the right one?
So, you are saying that hanging people for their religious views, and forcing rape victims to marry the rapist, and treating women like property, and honor killings, and treating people like slaves... all might be a matter of perspective, and NOT a matter of right and wrong? This is all just a matter of perspective? How cultural!
So even though the west and every other different culture all have different views on things like you listed, we should all of a sudden apply our culture on them because its right? My how cultural.
Publicado por
Adamsm
*cough*Hiroshima*cough*
More marginalization? For some reason, since the US did some horrible things, then we should not demand just treatment for humans?
Have you ever done anything wrong, Adamsm? If so, then by your logic you shouldn't really judge anyone or anything, and thus should probably leave the debate. Sorry bro.
Look at the edit MyTie; the only reason other countries develop nuclear weapons is because of fear of the only country who's ever actually used one during a war.
Publicado por
gamerunknown
Islamic law
Has as much to do with Islamic law as the murder of David Kato has to do with Christian laws. It's tradition, it has nothing to do with what their prophet or holy book said.
develop nuclear weapons
You're the one that brought it up. The US is the only country in the world to have used nuclear weapons and one of the most ardent supporters of non-proliferation. They want hegemony. You say that Noam Chomsky's support for Venezuela is relevant to his criticisms of the US presidents, I say the US utilising a weapon of mass destruction is relevant to their support for non-proliferation.
Publicado por
MyTie
So even though the west and every other different culture all have different views on things like you listed, we should all of a sudden apply our culture on them because its right? My how cultural.
If their culture supports rape and murder, then, yes. I feel morally justified in applying my culture on them. That is wrong and I don't care what their culture says, it is wrong. Now, I'm not going to tell them to start wearing blue jeans, watching baseball, and driving a Hummer. They can keep their overall culture and traditions.
Edit: Yes, I've always found the nuclear weapon argument to be the biggest piece of global hypocrisy in existence; Oh the rest of the world can disarm their nuclear weapons, but you know...we'll just keep a few(just in case you know).
When was the last time the president of the US said he wanted to wipe a nation off the map?
When was the last time the president of Iran said he wanted to wipe a nation off the map?
Now, I'm not saying that the US is righteous and deserves that kind of power. I don't like any nuclear weapon. It's an unfortunate situation that they exist. However, saying that Iran shouldn't have nuclear weapons is made no less true by the fact that the US does have nuclear weapons. Again, you're trying to justify something that is wrong by pointing to a flaw of the US. I don't buy it.
Publicado por
MyTie
Islamic law
Has as much to do with Islamic law as the murder of David Kato has to do with Christian laws. It's tradition, it has nothing to do with what their prophet or holy book said.
So what do all the cases tried under Islamic law that call for rape victims to be jailed, and support honor killings? What is that? Coincidence? If there were "Christian laws" that called for killing rape victims... or killing anyone... I would be right here, in this thread, arguing against them. That's how I work. Because I am a Christian you aren't going to get me to argue in favor of atrocities done in the name of Christ. If there were a systematic method of widespread application of so called "Christian Law" that was the root of atrocities, it would need to change. That doesn't have anything to do with Christ. That's not the point. The point here is that the laws of the Middle East are applied to deadly consequence. It's atrocious.
Publicado por
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Publicado por
buzz3070
So even though the west and every other different culture all have different views on things like you listed, we should all of a sudden apply our culture on them because its right? My how cultural.
If their culture supports rape and murder, then, yes. I feel morally justified in applying my culture on them. That is wrong and I don't care what their culture says, it is wrong. Now, I'm not going to tell them to start wearing blue jeans, watching baseball, and driving a Hummer. They can keep their overall culture and traditions.
By western standards its wrong. you are from a western nation looking into a nation whos culture has developed seperatly from yours over the course of thouands of years and you see issues that come up that you feel are wrong. Why do you think you can justify your belief in that culture is wrong and then use your own culture to back up your points? Thats like saying our culture is wrong because we allow women to vote or to work or to have a life outside of obeying her husband, having children, and keeping the house clean.
Again i ask what view is the right one? No matter how you slice it you cant say what one is wrong and what one is right because how each one developed influenced its position on issues and imposing one culture including its morals on another is just wrong.
/headdesk
All im going to say to that is /shrug, im both playing devils advocate and defending my position on issues of cultural differences which is really what this boils down to. This is going ot be my last post on the subject because its inevtibly going to turn into a debate in which we go around in circles.
A man, forcing his penis into a unwilling woman over and over and over, in an event we called "rape", is not a cultural event.
i never said it was, all of my points stem directly from your thoughts on other countries pressuring the middle east to give up fundamental islamic laws which the topic at hand is partially about.
Again like i said i will not be posting in this thread after this final edit. As i feel it will go around in circles as my arguments might devolve into something bad.
Publicado por
MyTie
Why do you think you can justify your belief in that culture is wrong and then use your own culture to back up your points?
A man, forcing his penis into a unwilling woman over and over and over, in an event we called "rape", is not a cultural event.
Publicado por
gamerunknown
So what do all the cases tried under Islamic law that call for rape victims to be jailed, and support honor killings? What is that?
They're as much an Islamic law court as English courts are Christian law courts because England has Anglicism as the official religion. The laws are based on horrible tradition and given textual support by a crappy rule in Deuteronomy. Nothing to do with Islam.
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