Este sitio hace uso intenso de JavaScript.
Por favor habilita JavaScript en tu navegador.
Moderna
RPP
10.2.7
RPP
10.2.6
Beta
Elite Quests
Escribir respuesta
Regresar al índice de los foros
Publicado por
Trishi
We had a thread about this pre-Cata, and people have had a lot of time to get a new feel of this "No group quests" mantra that Blizzard have taken upon them. So I'd start it up again to see what people think about it.
I, personally, feel kind of bummed about it. I mean, sure, it's nice to be able to solo everything the moment you are eligible for the quests. But it just feels... anticlimatic. Like the Nessingwary quests in Outland. We work ourselves up against several layers of monsters, feeling like we are
getting somewhere
, and finally get to go against the top of the species - Which is a reskinned, normal mob with a slightly boosted health pool.
It might be partly the nostalgia filter speaking in some cases - Like Durn the Hungerer. He was always "that guy running around Oshugun you just don't mess with", and now? Accidentially pull him, and you'll hardly even feel it (Aside from him taking up your whole f***ing screen.)
To me, Outland was a part of the game where you put in a lot of effort in some of the quests. There were a lot of quests that were immensely hard alone. Some of them were doable alone, as pretty much any class, and others were almost impossible to solo. Finding a group was a chore, and not fun (And that's coming from someone who levels 80 % of the time with a pre-made group). But they were
climatic
. It felt like I
earned
my rewards. When the feared leaders or champions of a certain group is fought, that battle shouldn't feel identical to all of his minions. At least not in my opinion.
So what is your opinion on this? Have it changed after having tried it out throughout Cataclysm?
Publicado por
331902
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Publicado por
Interest
I'd say that the once-elite mobs should be made a lot stronger, but not quite to Elite level. This means it would be somewhere between the original state and the current state as a compromise of sorts. I think they should at least be challenging in the sense that you'll end up in a prolonged battle with said powerful enemy and may have to deal with some mechanics of sorts, but it won't force you to group with other players to take it down (unless you were skilled enough/abuse power creep enough/use heirlooms to win). I think this would give a sort of "epic" feel to the encounter that is currently trivialized by blowing up the mobs in a good 5 seconds.
For instance, Durn should have health multiplied by 6 and his damage slightly increased.
Publicado por
225109
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Publicado por
331902
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Publicado por
Azrile
I think the way the game has been the last 5 years, it was good that they removed group quests. Nothing was more frustrating then getting to the end of an interesting quest chain and then not being able to finish it because you couldn´t find people to group with.
That said, with the change to the zone system, they possibly could add group quests back in because you should always have plenty of players questing through the zone with you.. But in reality, I would prefer they did it like scenerios.. where the climax to a long quest chain is an instanced zone because the other problem with group quests is just interference from other players.
In my opinion, scenerios will be much better because the devs can micro-create your encounters similar to a dungeon. For instance.. anti-climatic is getting to the group quest of a long chain, only to show up to kill the boss and have a bunch of people waiting in line, or having already cleared out the castle and just rez-killing the boss as soon as he spawns.
Publicado por
Azrile
I think the way the game has been the last 5 years, it was good that they removed group quests. Nothing was more frustrating then getting to the end of an interesting quest chain and then not being able to finish it because you couldn´t find people to group with.
Surely the alternative is frustrating as well because it's a long road to 85 with everything falling over in front of you.
It loses the chance to compare alts which is what I used to do. Say my rogue couldn't solo an elite quest well lets see if my warrior can. Or if they both could, which could do it at a lower level.
Another thing that's gone, is the chance to quest regularly at red which is due to Cata restricting the levels at which you can obtain quests more than the previous expansions did.
Your issue is with heirlooms, not quests. It also is with your experience as a player.
Questing, especially 1-60 has to be built with a new player in mind, not a vet on his 8th character wearing heirlooms and a pocket full of gold. For the rest of us, we have two choices, enjoy the story of the zones without much of a challenge, or grind through dungeons. The devs simply cannot make the 1-60 zones challenging for experienced players in heirlooms without completely frustrating new players.
Publicado por
Adamsm
Lol, you mention BC, but you left the out the major issue: Finding anyone to do group quests was next to impossible. I remember sitting for 6 hours before before I even started the Sons of Gruul's quests before the start of Ogri'la....or trying to get a group for the Cypher of Damnation....or any of the group quests in Nagrand, Netherstorm or Blades Edge Mountains.
Edit: And when I speak of Nagrand, I don't mean the Great Hunt quests or the Ring of Blood; I'm talking about the Forge Camps, the quest to kill the Dark Earth Lord and those ones, I rarely if ever saw anyone willing to do the quests at the same time and for the Forge Camps I cheated on one toon and just used Enslave Demon to get the Elite Felguards to finish them off; everyone else was forced to wait till level 70 to finish those ones off.
And of course the hell group quests in Vanilla: Trying to get groups for the raid quests, the groups for the Blasted Lands, Silithus, the Crater or anywhere else; you had a 20% chance of finding someone willing to group up.
Yes, the leveling process is more stream lined and 'easier' now a days...but that's not a horrible thing; I still see people out and about questing and I still send out random group invites while questing in a specific area to make things go faster.
Publicado por
Archibolt
Most 1-60 and 80-85 zones have a distinct ramp up in health when it comes to unique mini-boss type quest mobs. These mobs take longer to kill, but aren't no where as hard or durable as elites as we remembered them.
However, there are still elite mobs out there after the Shattering. Granted, they are few and far between, but in my mind, having them there only proved that the new system is more suitable. Out of the 3 characters I have leveled through Hillsbrad with, none of them done Yeticus the Yeti Lord at the correct level. Either because no one was there to join, or are just not interested in doing so. A dozen of solo'ing attempt also didn't come to fruition. The same can be said about the Durnholde Challenge chain. It was a bit easier to do, but I wasn't able to complete all of them on all of the 3 chars.
TLDR: Elite quests only makes sense if the zone is decently populated. The reason why Nagrand elite quests weren't too bad during Wrath was that it almost always had people there. Now that the population is more thin, elite quest would have become impossible if they had not been changed.
Publicado por
Interest
Most 1-60 and 80-85 zones have a distinct ramp up in health when it comes to unique mini-boss type quest mobs. These mobs take longer to kill, but aren't no where as hard or durable as elites as we remembered them.
However, there are still elite mobs out there after the Shattering. Granted, they are few and far between, but in my mind, having them there only proved that the new system is more suitable. Out of the 3 characters I have leveled through Hillsbrad with, none of them done Yeticus the Yeti Lord at the correct level. Either because no one was there to join, or are just not interested in doing so. A dozen of solo'ing attempt also didn't come to fruition. The same can be said about the Durnholde Challenge chain. It was a bit easier to do, but I wasn't able to complete all of them on all of the 3 chars.
TLDR: Elite quests only makes sense if the zone is decently populated.
The reason why Nagrand elite quests weren't too bad during Wrath was that it almost always had people there.
Now that the population is more thin, elite quest would have become impossible if they had not been changed.
I'm going to partially disagree there. Those were all 3-man quests that became trivialized heavily by power creep and/or heirlooms. I was destroying them solo when leveling my alts in Wrath. =)
Publicado por
Archibolt
Did I say Wrath? I meant BC :(
Good job brain...
Publicado por
Arigise
It occurs to me a suitable compromise might be making elite quests as they were in an expansion until the second raiding tier releases and then nerfing it to solo difficulty. This way its still challenging when its new and lots of players are moving through the content and then becomes easier as fewer people are leveling and for alts.
Publicado por
422399
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Publicado por
Trishi
I'd say that the once-elite mobs should be made a lot stronger, but not quite to Elite level. This means it would be somewhere between the original state and the current state as a compromise of sorts. I think they should at least be challenging in the sense that you'll end up in a prolonged battle with said powerful enemy and may have to deal with some mechanics of sorts, but it won't force you to group with other players to take it down (unless you were skilled enough/abuse power creep enough/use heirlooms to win). I think this would give a sort of "epic" feel to the encounter that is currently trivialized by blowing up the mobs in a good 5 seconds.
For instance, Durn should have health multiplied by 6 and his damage slightly increased.
This is what I had wanted to see with the removal of group quests. Group quests are a chore, so I'm not really missing them as a whole.
But when I am send to kill a "mighty adversary" like Durn, I want to have a fight with him. I don't want to see him drop in 3 GCDs. Stuff isn't "too hard" when a quest is more than doable for someone with nothing but quest greens, as long as they blow a cooldown or two. And ironically...
and for the Forge Camps I cheated on one toon and just used Enslave Demon to get the Elite Felguards to finish them off; everyone else was forced to wait till level 70 to finish those ones off.
This is exactly what I want
. You aren't supposed to spam the same 2 spells you do at every other mob, when you are facing what is supposed to be "elite troops" or "champions". You are supposed to
do something
. Not something like this, obviously, as that means some classes are just screwed over by these quests, but something that forces the player to do something he or she otherwise wouldn't. Like cooldowns or debuffs.
Anything
really.
Elite Quests doesn't need to be group quests. I can kill mobs in 5 seconds without dropping below 90 % hp. Give me a boss/leader/champion/whatever I need a cooldown to survive through. Or leave me at 20 % hp, if I
don't
stand in the fires. I don't want hard stuff, I want
interesting
stuff. There is a vast difference between the two. There is a middle point between "killable in 5 seconds" and "group with a tank, a healer and 3 dps".
Publicado por
Azrile
That is simply a design decision. I too wish there was a game where instead of sending you out to kill 10 boars that take 15 seconds each with 15 seconds between each kill ( so 5 minutes total for quest).. there were more quests that sent you out to kill 1 boar, which took 3 minutes to kill and required you to use more of your rotation and cds.
The devs really highlighted this in Cata when they started giving all the core spec abilities at level 10. that is basically all you will use from 1-84 are those basic spells
But this is a topic beyond élite quests´ being returned to the game, it is the decison the devs made and will never undo.
Publicado por
Trishi
The devs really highlighted this in Cata when they started giving all the core spec abilities at level 10. that is basically all you will use from 1-84 are those basic spells
This design decision had only made sense if they gave us
all
our core spells at level 10. As a Resto Shaman, I'm loathing my time till level 69 before I
finally
get one of my most important spells, Riptide.
And I'm not sure how this is beyond the topic. I, and probably everyone else who knows how Blizzard handles these things, know that they wont undo this change. And that's a shame, because Blizzard is missing out on a lot of potential.
Publicado por
Adamsm
This is exactly what I want
. You aren't supposed to spam the same 2 spells you do at every other mob, when you are facing what is supposed to be "elite troops" or "champions". You are supposed to
do something
. Not something like this, obviously, as that means some classes are just screwed over by these quests, but something that forces the player to do something he or she otherwise wouldn't. Like cooldowns or debuffs.
Anything
really.
Elite Quests doesn't need to be group quests. I can kill mobs in 5 seconds without dropping below 90 % hp. Give me a boss/leader/champion/whatever I need a cooldown to survive through. Or leave me at 20 % hp, if I
don't
stand in the fires. I don't want hard stuff, I want
interesting
stuff. There is a vast difference between the two. There is a middle point between "killable in 5 seconds" and "group with a tank, a healer and 3 dps".
So, along the lines of the
Ready for Raiding II
then? Or the 'elite' quests in the Molten Front, where you kill the spawned bosses in particular ways; avoiding the Fire Breath, letting the Birds kill the boss, don't heal the poison, go all out to kill the guy in the first round and stand under the shield during Nemesis' faze?
Or really, any of the 'elite' quests in Hyjal, where you had to use the mechanics provided to stop them?
Publicado por
Trishi
This is exactly what I want
. You aren't supposed to spam the same 2 spells you do at every other mob, when you are facing what is supposed to be "elite troops" or "champions". You are supposed to
do something
. Not something like this, obviously, as that means some classes are just screwed over by these quests, but something that forces the player to do something he or she otherwise wouldn't. Like cooldowns or debuffs.
Anything
really.
Elite Quests doesn't need to be group quests. I can kill mobs in 5 seconds without dropping below 90 % hp. Give me a boss/leader/champion/whatever I need a cooldown to survive through. Or leave me at 20 % hp, if I
don't
stand in the fires. I don't want hard stuff, I want
interesting
stuff. There is a vast difference between the two. There is a middle point between "killable in 5 seconds" and "group with a tank, a healer and 3 dps".
So, along the lines of the
Ready for Raiding II
then? Or the 'elite' quests in the Molten Front, where you kill the spawned bosses in particular ways; avoiding the Fire Breath, letting the Birds kill the boss, don't heal the poison, go all out to kill the guy in the first round and stand under the shield during Nemesis' faze?
Or really, any of the 'elite' quests in Hyjal, where you had to use the mechanics provided to stop them?
Exactly. Something more interesting, that doesn't require a group. Not that hard, yet they apparently doesn't really want to put any effort into it, unless we are talking content that people have seen during 1 patch, and wont see anymore now. They should rather have fixed up the classic zones with quests like that.
Publicado por
422399
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Publicado por
Interest
Did I say Wrath? I meant BC :(
Good job brain...
It's okay, though they were soloable in BC (at least the first three elites anyways). I remember having a heck of a time doing it too since it was my second char or something when I tried to do it (Drain tanking is fun)
Escribir respuesta
No has iniciado sesión. Por favor
inicia sesión
para escribir una respuesta o
crea una cuenta
si aún no tienes una.