Assessing all the options [4.1]

Publicado por asakawa

The information in this thread is intended to be a useful reference for people to be able to properly assess the various choices we have as Warlocks in the PvE game

Patch 4.2 update

With relatively minor changes in patch 4.2 I'm going to save an overhaul of this thread for 4.3 at which point I will also use profiles with a higher item level. Rising gear levels through 4.2 will increase the numbers involved but the relative differences between the various options should remain largely the same

Table of Contents

Introduction

Ilvl 346 Stat Weights
BiS Stat Weights
Notes

Introduction

The tendency with this game is to boil everything down to right and wrong. You're either doing things the absolutely optimal way or you're doing it all wrong.

This approach is fine when the difference between option A and option B is a 20% drop in DPS but the game is more complicated now with many more options than ever before. The difference is never that great but our theorycrafting tools are more finely honed and more than equal to the task of quantifying the subtle differences.

My goal with this thread is to look at all the options and try to put a figure to them so we can all see for ourselves exactly how much we stand to lose by making a "sub optimal" decision and decide for ourselves how important it really is.

I'm going to base all these figures on the ilvl 346 set I recently used to make stat weights since it represents at decently balanced, hit-capped gear set. The important thing is that each simulation only changes a single property. The gear will be the same throughout.

If this thread becomes a useful resource then it may be appropriate to go over the tests with different gear sets as we move through the expansion's tiers.

All Simulations are Patchwerk fights, 450seconds long with a 20% variance. I've used 1000 iterations for most tests with 10,000 for very fine differences.

Demonology

Glyphs

DPSDifferencePercentage

No Glyphs 19443
Prime Glyphs
Glifo carbonizado 19742 + 299 +1.538%
Glifo carbonizado 19592 + 149 +0.766%
Glifo carbonizado 19533 + 90 +0.463%
Glifo carbonizado 19508 + 65 +0.334%

Major Glyphs
Glifo carbonizado 19472 + 29 +0.149%
Glifo carbonizado 19469 + 26 +0.134%

Pet-specific Prime Glyphs
Succubus with no glyphs 18125
Glifo carbonizado 19139 +1014 +5.594%

Imp with no glyphs 17871
Glifo carbonizado 18618 + 747 +4.180%

Felguard with no glyphs 17963
Glifo de guardia vil 18052 + 89 +0.495%

Pets

DPSDifferencePercentage

Invocar manáfago 20012
Invocar súcubo 19608 - 404 -2.019%
Invocar diablillo 19140 - 872 -4.357%
Invocar guardia vil 18523 -1489 -7.441%

Invocar guardia apocalíptico 20012
Invocar infernal 19597

Talents

DPSDifferencePercentagePer Talent Point

Demonology only 18294
Without Emberstorm 19545
20012 + 467 +2.389% 1.194%
18872 + 578 +3.160% 1.053%
18602 + 308 +1.684% 0.842%
18695 + 401 +2.192% 0.731%
18472 + 178 +0.973% 0.324%

Enchants

DPSDifferencePercentage

Weapon Enchants
No Enchant 19526
Torrente de poder 19870 +344 +1.762%
Poder con hechizos poderoso 19654 +128 +0.655%
Huracán 19613 +87 +0.445%

Races

DPSDifferencePercentage
Orco 20835 523 2.575%
Trol 20728 416 2.048%
Huargen 20479 167 0.822%
Goblin 20465 153 0.753%
No-muerto 20312-
Elfo de sangre 20326-
Gnomo 20342-
Humano 20316-
Enano 20317-

Professions

DPSDifferencePercentage

No Professions 20306
Sastrería 20702 396 1.950%
Ingeniería 20652 346 1.704%
Herrería 20526 220 1.083%
Peletería * 20632 326 1.605%
Alquimia 20550 244 1.202%
Encantamiento 20522 216 1.064%
Joyería 20539 233 1.148%
Inscripción 20532 226 1.113%
Herboristería 20437 131 0.645%
Desuello 20373 67 0.330%
Minería 20307-

* The differences between the professions that all provide 80 Intellect seen here is just simulation noise. Leatherworking's value is inflated because the 130 Int enchant replaces 50 haste in these tests rather than the more expensive 50 Int *

Other Options

DPSDifferencePercentage

Incinerar as filler with modified build 19680 -332 -1.659%
(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##

Publicado por asakawa

Destruction

Glyphs

DPSDifferencePercentage

No Glyphs 18783
Prime Glyphs

Glifo carbonizado 19338 +555 +2.955%
Glifo carbonizado 19117 +334 +1.778%
Glifo carbonizado 18999 +216 +1.150%
Glifo carbonizado 18951 +168 +0.894%
Glifo carbonizado 18804 + 21 +0.112%

Shadowburn test* - no glyphs 18690
Glifo desvaído 18746 +56 0.300%

Major Glyphs
Glifo carbonizado 18807 + 24 +0.127%

* Done using SimCraft version 4.1.0 release 10

Pets

DPSDifferencePercentage

Invocar diablillo 19963
Invocar manáfago 19791 -172 -0.861%
Invocar súcubo 19201 -762 -3.817%

Invocar guardia apocalíptico 19963
Invocar infernal 19989

Talents

DPSDifferencePercentagePer Talent Point

Destruction only 18570
19558 +988 +5.320% 1.773%
Without Mana Feed 19558
19843 +285 +1.457% 0.364%
18647 + 77 +0.415% 0.208%
18679 +109 +0.587% 0.196%

Enchants

DPSDifferencePercentage
Weapon Enchants
No Enchant 19849
Torrente de poder 20207 +358 +1.803%
Poder con hechizos poderoso 19994 +145 +0.731%
Huracán 19962 +113 +0.569%

Races

DPSDifferencePercentage
Orco 20533 367 1.820%
Trol 20444 278 1.379%
Huargen 20309 143 0.709%
Goblin 20298 132 0.655%
No-muerto 20166 -
Elfo de sangre 20190-

Gnomo 20205-
Humano 20175-
Enano 20172-

Professions

DPSDifferencePercentage

No Professions 20151
Sastrería 20563 412 2.045%
Ingeniería 20451 300 1.489%
Peletería * 20476 325 1.613%
Herrería 20383 232 1.151%
Alquimia 20392 241 1.196%
Joyería 20379 228 1.131%
Inscripción 20379 228 1.131%
Encantamiento 20391 240 1.191%
Herboristería 20284 133 0.660%
Desuello 20221 70 0.347%
Minería 20150 -

* The differences between the professions that all provide 80 Intellect seen here is just simulation noise. Leatherworking's value is inflated because the 130 Int enchant replaces 50 haste in these tests rather than the more expensive 50 Int *

Other Options

DPSDifferencePercentage

Affliction - Shadow Bolt Filler

Glyph Options

DPSDifferencePercentage

No Glyphs 20640
Prime Glyphs
Glifo carbonizado 20891 +251 +1.216%
Glifo carbonizado 20724 + 84 +0.407%
Glifo carbonizado 20664 + 24 +0.116%

Major Glyphs
Glifo carbonizado 20675 +35 +0.169%
Glifo carbonizado 20658 +18 +0.087%

Pet Options

DPSDifferencePercentage

Invocar manáfago 21040
Invocar súcubo 20147 -893 -4.244%
Invocar diablillo 19730 -1310 -6.226%

Invocar guardia apocalíptico 21040
Invocar infernal 21033

Talent Options

DPSDifferencePercentagePer Talent Point

Affliction only 19791
20238 +447 +2.259% 0.753%
20228 +437 +2.208% 0.736%
20097 +306 +1.546% 0.513%

No Mana Feed 20228
20369 +141 +0.697% 0.174%

Enchant Options

DPSDifferencePercentage
Weapon Enchants
No Enchant 20924
Torrente de poder 21304 +380 +1.816%
Poder con hechizos poderoso 21080 +156 +0.746%
Huracán 21044 +120 +0.574%

Races

DPSDifferencePercentage
Orco 21705 484 2.280%
Trol 21555 334 1.574%
Goblin 21384 163 0.768%
Huargen 21375 154 0.726%
No-muerto 21221 -
Elfo de sangre 21224 -

Gnomo 21222 -
Humano 21237 -
Enano 21223 -

Professions

DPSDifferencePercentage

No Professions 21219
Sastrería 21602 383 1.805%
Ingeniería 21565 346 1.631%
Peletería *21531 312 1.470%
Herrería 21446 227 1.070%
Alquimia 21445 226 1.065%
Joyería 21439 220 1.037%
Inscripción 21447 228 1.075%
Encantamiento 21450 231 1.089%
Herboristería 21347 128 0.603%
Desuello 21269 50 0.236%
Minería 21221 -

* The differences between the professions that all provide 80 Intellect seen here is just simulation noise. Leatherworking's value is inflated because the 130 Int enchant replaces 50 haste in these tests rather than the more expensive 50 Int *

Other Options

DPSDifferencePercentage

Agonía with Glifo carbonizado 20565 -475 -2.258%

(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##

Publicado por asakawa

Affliction - Drain Life Filler

Glyph Options

DPSDifferencePercentage

No Glyphs 20817
Prime Glyphs
Glifo carbonizado 21134 +317 +1.523%
Glifo carbonizado 20866 +49 +0.235%
Glifo carbonizado 20820 +3 +0.014%

Major Glyphs
Glifo carbonizado 20835 +18 +0.086%

Pet Options

DPSDifferencePercentage

Invocar manáfago 21229
Invocar súcubo 20135 -1094 -5.153%
Invocar diablillo 19600 -1629 -7.673%

Invocar guardia apocalíptico 21229
Invocar infernal 21235

Talent Options

DPSDifferencePercentagePer Talent Point

Affliction only 20451
20933 +482 +2.357% 0.786%
Without Manafeed 20933
21149 +216 +1.031% 0.258%
20522 +71 +0.347% 0.116%

Enchant Options

DPSDifferencePercentage
Weapon Enchants
No Enchant 21115

Torrente de poder 21504 +389 +1.842%
Poder con hechizos poderoso 21268 +153 +0.725%
Huracán 21223 +108 +0.511%

Races

DPSDifferencePercentage
Orco 22132 507 2.344%
Trol 21946 321 1.484%
Goblin 21782 157 0.726%
Huargen 21759 134 0.620%
No-muerto 21625 -
Elfo de sangre 21626 -

Gnomo 21637 -
Humano 21620 -
Enano 21618 -

Professions

DPSDifferencePercentage

No Professions 21620
Sastrería 21988 368 1.702%
Ingeniería 21983 363 1.679%
Peletería *21941 321 1.485%
Herrería 21852 232 1.073%
Alquimia 21849 229 1.059%
Joyería 21863 243 1.124%
Inscripción 21852 232 1.073%
Encantamiento 21867 247 1.142%
Herboristería 21755 135 0.624%
Desuello 21684 64 0.296%
Minería 21622 -

* The differences between the professions that all provide 80 Intellect seen here is just simulation noise. Leatherworking's value is inflated because the 130 Int enchant replaces 50 haste in these tests rather than the more expensive 50 Int *

Other Options

DPSDifferencePercentage

Agonía with Glifo carbonizado 20774 -455 -2.143%

Stat Weights

Sta Int SP Hit Crit Haste Mastery

Demonology http://chardev.org/?profile=107872 Wowhead

Scale Factors 0.0000 2.7145 2.1282 1.5238 0.8879 0.8748 1.0166
Normalized 0.0000 1.0000 0.7840 0.5614 0.3271 0.3223 0.3745

Destruction http://chardev.org/?profile=107873 Wowhead

Scale Factors 0.0000 2.7982 2.2000 1.6016 0.8866 1.1438 0.8042
Normalized 0.0000 1.0000 0.7862 0.5724 0.3169 0.4088 0.2874

Affliction - SB http://chardev.org/?profile=107875 Wowhead

Scale Factors 0.0000 2.9115 2.3381 1.2986 0.9019 1.1150 0.7125
Normalized 0.0000 1.0000 0.8030 0.4460 0.3098 0.3830 0.2447

Affliction - Drain http://chardev.org/?profile=107876 Wowhead

Scale Factors 0.0000 3.0368 2.4375 1.2654 1.0036 1.0990 0.9454
Normalized 0.0000 1.0000 0.8027 0.4167 0.3305 0.3619 0.3113

BiS stat weights for reference:

Int SP Hit Crit Haste Mastery
AffDrain_T11_359_PTR 3.2180 2.5176 1.7816 1.2152 1.3696 1.0367
AffDrain_T11_372_PTR 3.3616 2.6421 1.9833 1.3267 1.4029 1.2137
Affliction_T11_359_PTR 3.1278 2.4991 1.7165 1.1305 1.3472 0.8621
Affliction_T11_372_PTR 3.2781 2.5878 1.9391 1.2908 1.4997 0.9855
Demonology_T11_359_PTR 2.8564 2.2350 2.0756 1.0934 1.1267 1.2023
Demonology_T11_372_PTR 2.9974 2.3628 2.3271 1.1955 1.1183 1.3699
Destruction_T11_359_PTR 2.9993 2.3045 2.1277 1.0963 1.3032 0.9844
Destruction_T11_372_PTR 3.1103 2.4173 2.4708 1.2068 1.4148 1.1100

Notes

Mana Feed's "per point" value is worked out at costing four talent points since 2 points must be spent on non-DPS increasing talents to reach it.
The Bane of Agony numbers in the Affliction specs also use the glyph and replace the Glyph of Unstable Affliction (lowest value prime).
Different pet options all use the pet's glyph if it has one. This always replaces the lowest value prime glyph.
Professions tests only include enchants/gems, passive and active abilities and not special BoP gear items that the professions provide. This may mean that engineering, Jewelcrafting and Alchemy provide a greater benefit to you than shown here but you will have to assess that for yourself based on your current gear set.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##

Publicado por asakawa

Well, that's completed the majority of what I set out to achieve initially. I've got some ideas for refining and expanding but I would welcome feedback on ways I can make the info easier to read or any other interesting options we have as warlocks that I should include.

Publicado por Metalfenrir

I can't even begin to describe how awesome this thread is. Such words don't exist in the English language. I didn't break out the fine tooth comb, but everything looks incredibly solid.

+1337 internets to you good sir.

Publicado por TheVorago

props for the most beautiful layout I've so far seen in a wowhead thread Asa :)
and of course for the research. Keep up the great work!

Publicado por tugipus

This is incredibly helpful. Well done. You are the main reason i dont suck at my occasional PvE excursions ;o)

Publicado por LookOut

\o/

Very nicely done!

Although a small pet peeve: why put affli last? It's in first place when you check out the talent tree :p Not that it matters much, it just seems a tiny bit odd to start with demo and finish with affli :)

Publicado por asakawa

Thanks all. I'm glad it will be something people find useful.

@Lookout, honestly it all started because I'm geeky enough that I was just running a few tests on Demo for myself (wanting to know the actual difference between pets and what the different options for a third glyph were) and once I was started I just carried on ^_^

Plus, Aff always goes first by default. I think it's good for Demo to go first for once.

Publicado por LookOut

kk it's all good ^_^

Publicado por 220291

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Publicado por 756794

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Publicado por asakawa

So SB affli spec: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#IrGr0hsGsdcZI:sMRoVzMo ?

Yeah. After spending 9 points on DPS increasing talents the SB spec has a point left over that you can put in something useful in affliction (as you did going for SB:SoC) or just increasing health with 1/3 Demonic Embrace.

With that said though, the FAQ should be advising you on the absolute optimal. What I'm interested in with this thread is questions like:
"So now I'm being told to use BoD instead of BoA as Affliction, is that really a big increase or can I stick with what I'm used to?"
or:
"I could really use an interrupt on my raid's Nefarian attempts. Do I lose a ton of DPS if I use the Felhunter?"

Publicado por LookOut

Asakawa, for some reason your posts are starting to give me scrollbars up the a-hole ...

Publicado por asakawa

Hmm, that's interesting.
Any better now? Using table tags should scale everything to the user's own window but perhaps that's not always the case.

Do the main posts in this thread use scrollbars too?

Publicado por 539323

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Publicado por asakawa

Hehe, you think there's enough stuff there for a ToC?
Happy to do one of course ^_^

Publicado por 539323

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Publicado por Gnub

Added to the list of Helpful Threads - loving the layout, very well done :)

Publicado por asakawa

Thanks Mr Gnu!

ToC added ganimede, just for you ^_^

Assessing all the options [4.1]

Escribir respuesta