Warlock FAQ [current for 3.3.5]

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Beitrag von asakawa

yes to immo aura
no to cleave

drop demo circle
pop meta (+trinkets/potions/make sure life tap is up etc. etc.)
charge
immo aura
nuke!
refresh DoTs at some point during meta and make sure you get a CoD in there
meta fades
teleport back

Beitrag von 429308

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Beitrag von Kangi

Hm, I think a little section under "What's the rotation for x build?" explaining optimal AoEs would be a good addition.

Beitrag von asakawa

hmm, decent idea, it comes up relatively frequently. thanks

edit: not sure i've expressed that in a particularly concise way. feedback welcomed.

Beitrag von Rekijan

Just one question I came across this 0/50/21 build quite a lot. I love the felguard, so I admit I am maybe a bit biased, but the guild works very good. Nice mana managment, easy to use (send pet + SB spam). The upside against aff is not having to rely on slow dots, and less downtime compared to destro.

It also seems a popular raid/instance build. So I wondered why it wasn\t in this guide.

Beitrag von asakawa

basically it comes down to metamorphosis > devastation.

choosing the meta talent will do much more for a warlock's output than the 5% crit from devastation. this is why the deep demo build discussed in this thread is a meta build.

Beitrag von olgamaster

Does your spec include Emberstorm? ► If so then use Rain of Fire(RoF)

Seed of Corruption does much more damage than RoF even with talents *edit* didn't see the bit about less than three targets

Demonology 0/56/15
Life Tap, Felguard, Immolate

immolate should be replaced with metamorphasis

Q: Do the different warlock specs have different gear requirements?
A: No.
This was the case in previous expansions and is a misconception which lingers into Wrath of the Lich King. All the major warlock specs follow very similar stat weightings meaning that there is no such thing as "affliction gear" or "destruction gear". While the various specs get slightly more or less from a given stat the priority order is the same for all specs.

Spirit shoots up to second for a meta/ruin DP build due to increased scaling from 10% your spellpower -> spellpower for your raid

Q: Should I use a Spellstone or a Firestone?
A: Spellstones will provide a noticeably greater benefit for all* warlock specs.

*The only exception to this rule is deep Destruction which is close enough for personal preference to be the deciding factor.
I have yet to see proof from any recent patch that puts spellstone at competitive levels for firestone as destruction

Cap you Hit Rating - Check the section on stats to find out your hit cap and get that cap. Don't go over. Don't be too far under.

I always see this when you link the sticky to people that ask about things: it should be YOUR hit rating!

Beitrag von asakawa

Seed of Corruption does much more damage than RoF even with talents *edit* didn't see the bit about less than three targets
ok, you get that. this section could certainly use some editing for clarity. i was trying to find an easy to understand layout...

immolate should be replaced with metamorphasis
i've discussed several times in recent threads that GoMeta is marginal and it's a buff that only really shines in simulations.
quoting myself in a recent thread:
simcraft puts GoMeta ahead so that would be a solid choice but for me the 6 seconds on meta is the kind of buff that will look great in the kind of simulation that simcraft runs but i never feel i get the most out of that 6 seconds in practical situations. the immo glyph is my glyph of choice as it's a nice buff to a constantly used spell.

edit:
interestingly, i got intrigued enough to run a quick simcraft parse myself to test these glyph choices and got:
GoMeta = 7540
GoImmo = 7544
this is at T8 BiS levels (i was testing middle ground gear rather than current cutting edge) but shows how close they are. immo is a reliable choice while the 6 seconds on meta would be easy to mess up and lose the benefit.
essentially i stand by this recommendation. we can discuss it if you feel very strongly that meta wins and i may well make a note that EJ currently endorses meta but, for now, my entry will remain.

Spirit shoots up to second for a meta/ruin DP build due to increased scaling from 10% your spellpower -> spellpower for your raid
how exactly are you measuring the benefit to a raid? my point is in relation to stat weights and when we discuss stat weights it is pointless to try to factor in raid utility to actual numbers. current (that is T9) stat weights for the meta spec is:

profile Str Agi Sta Int Spi SP AP Exp ArPen Hit Crit Haste Wdps Lag
Warlock_T9_00_56_15 0.00 0.00 0.21 0.65 1.10 1.39 0.00 0.00 0.00 2.76 1.10 1.36 0.00 0.00
or:
hit > SP > haste > spirit = crit

while an awareness that SP (and because it's feeds into SP, spirit) is very important to meta locks who are relied upon to provide that buff is, of course, a good thing and a point which may well be worth noting, the stat weightings for each spec remain very similar. since i don't know the reader's raid make-up i can't comment on how important the stats will be for them.

I have yet to see proof from any recent patch that puts spellstone at competitive levels for firestone as destruction
i did some testing myself in 3.2. i'd be happy to change this entry if you have some more recent material that contradicts it.

I always see this when you link the sticky to people that ask about things: it should be YOUR hit rating!
yes, that'd be a typo. fixed.

Beitrag von asakawa

good catch with the hit/miss.

the thread title has "" in it. this, obviously, will change when i update the FAQ for 3.3.

Beitrag von olgamaster

Spirit might not be *weighted* higher for demo, but the weightings only apply to personal dps. If you are meta, you are a raid dps spec. With just 5 healers and yourself, the spellpower from spirit is increased by 50% as opposed to being the sole caster in the raid. At least make it clear that if you are focusing on raid utility spirit is your second most important stat.

Beitrag von asakawa

while an awareness that SP (and because it's feeds into SP, spirit) is very important to meta locks who are relied upon to provide that buff is, of course, a good thing and a point which may well be worth noting, the stat weightings for each spec remain very similar. since i don't know the reader's raid make-up i can't comment on how important the stats will be for them.

as i said, i'll look for a place to make this point.

to be clear, i feel that an important part of an FAQ like this is to get the good info out there in easy to digest chunks. i realise there are few absolutes but it's much easier to update people's thinking from misapprehensions based on previous versions of the game with a simple rule than a lengthy explanation with numerous caveats, exceptions and 'only ifs'.
there is a point to that particular frequently asked question which is not served by addenda.

Beitrag von olgamaster

And if you put in firestone in simcraft with my gear in destro (3240 spellpower self buffed, 27% crit, 19% haste), I'm getting a ~21dps difference between firestone and spellstone, with firestone being the clear winner. Well the difference is small, if you compare the dps without any stone at all and then compare the relative differences, it is obvious that firestone is much, much better for destruction - by a margin of almost 40%. This applies at almost all reasonably attainable levels of gear. In regards to the spirit > raid spellpower conversion, its at least important to note that from a pure raid dps perspective spirit is second to spirit. You don't have to get into math or numbers or hypothetical situations - it is as simple as "It is important to note that spirit, through demonic pact, becomes much more valuable when you have multiple casters in your group" or something like that. I don't see how that could confuse anyone, distort the point, or cause any misinterpretations. But whatever, maybe that's just me.

Beitrag von asakawa

This applies at almost all reasonably attainable levels of gear.
not so. T8 BiS puts SS ahead by 2dps. T9 puts it behind by 14dps by my parses.

again, it's a marginal difference in a specific circumstance and is the only exception to an otherwise neat rule. i noted the exception in my post so i really don't think anything needs to be changed here.

again, less snark and more collaboration might be constructive, no?

Beitrag von olgamaster

Aside from the one outdating EJ thread, I have yet to see any parses or reliable sources even attempt to make the claim that SS is a viable alternative to FS for deep destro specs. The general consensus is that FS is superior, and just because you personally enjoy having haste more than crit doesn't mean that you should be corrupting the views of people new to the warlock class who come to this forum for assistance playing their class.

Beitrag von asakawa

we're still doing this?

this point has absolutely nothing to do with my fondness or lack thereof for haste. i don't care what parses you have seen or what sources you decide to be reliable but i have done my own parses at various gear levels and did my own in game testing back at T8BiS levels.

as i said earlier:
i'd be happy to change this entry if you have some more recent material that contradicts it.
you can supply some material and then i can review it or you can drop this because i assure you i HAVE tested this point myself and i don't accept a simple EJ endorsement as compelling evidence.

just to try to predict a response:
8001 100.0% Warlock_T8_00_13_58_ss

Player: Warlock_T8_00_13_58_ss undead warlock destruction 80
DPS: 8001.2 Error=11.9 Range=588 DPR=24.5 RPS=326.1/272.7 (mana)
Origin: http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=13002350
Core Stats: strength=319|68(10) agility=327|75(10) stamina=1571|1108(946) intellect=1261|1042(885) spirit=730|540(369) health=22675|18390 mana=23049|19666
Spell Stats: power=3364|2395(2395) hit=13.80%|13.80%(362) crit=30.43%|24.12%(604) penetration=0|0(0) haste=26.95%|15.56%(510) mp5=0|0
Attack Stats power=1185|58(0) hit=11.04%|11.04%(362) crit=27.28%|17.26%(604) expertise=0.00|0.00(0) penetration=0.00%|0.00%(0) haste=45.09%|15.56%(510)
Defense Stats: armor=2642|2138(1988) blockv=160|34(0) defense=0|0(0) miss=0.00%|0.00% dodge=0.00%|0.00%(0) parry=0.00%|0.00%(0) block=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=13.90%|13.90%
Glyphs: conflagrate/incinerate/life_tap
Priorities:
flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=fish_feast/spell_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,imp/snapshot_stats
life_tap,buff_refresh=1/curse_of_doom,time_to_die>=80/immolate/conflagrate/chaos_bolt
incinerate/life_tap,mana_percentage<=20,buff_refresh=1,moving=1/corruption,time_to_die>=20,moving=1
curse_of_agony,time_to_die>=30,moving=1/life_tap
Actions:
chaos_bolt Count= 20.7|14.6sec DPE= 12041|10% DPET= 8721 DPR= 49.8 pDPS= 830 Miss=0.2% Hit=7568|6220|9024 Crit=15790|13430|18861|54.6%
conflagrate Count= 28.0|10.8sec DPE= 12149|14% DPET= 9797 DPR= 21.9 pDPS=1133 Miss=0.2% Hit=6951|6420|8392 Crit=14499|13419|17539|69.1%
curse_of_doom Count= 4.0|61.1sec DPE= 16776| 3% DPET= 12962 DPR= 29.0 pDPS= 225 Miss=0.1% TickCount=4 Tick=16817|15824|19924
immolate Count= 19.3|15.8sec DPE= 11660| 9% DPET= 10240 DPR= 19.8 pDPS= 749 Miss=0.0% Hit=2163|1977|2572 Crit= 4511| 4133| 5376|51.6% TickCount=93 Tick=1709|1533|2124
incinerate Count=131.1| 2.2sec DPE= 10047|55% DPET= 6598 DPR= 20.7 pDPS=4394 Miss=0.2% Hit=6167|4836|7574 Crit=12883|10108|15829|57.9%
imp (DPS=672.9)
fire_bolt Count=161.3| 1.9sec DPE= 1247| 8% DPET= 673 DPR= 6.9 pDPS= 671 Miss=0.2% Hit=1133|1076|1258 Crit= 1699| 1615| 1887|20.7%

7999 100.0% Warlock_T8_00_13_58

Player: Warlock_T8_00_13_58 undead warlock destruction 80
DPS: 7998.8 Error=11.7 Range=586 DPR=24.8 RPS=321.9/271.6 (mana)
Origin: http://profiler.wowhead.com/?profile=13002350
Core Stats: strength=319|68(10) agility=327|75(10) stamina=1571|1108(946) intellect=1261|1042(885) spirit=730|540(369) health=22675|18390 mana=23049|19666
Spell Stats: power=3364|2395(2395) hit=13.80%|13.80%(362) crit=31.50%|24.12%(604) penetration=0|0(0) haste=24.97%|15.56%(510) mp5=0|0
Attack Stats power=1185|58(0) hit=11.04%|11.04%(362) crit=27.28%|17.26%(604) expertise=0.00|0.00(0) penetration=0.00%|0.00%(0) haste=42.83%|15.56%(510)
Defense Stats: armor=2642|2138(1988) blockv=160|34(0) defense=0|0(0) miss=0.00%|0.00% dodge=0.00%|0.00%(0) parry=0.00%|0.00%(0) block=0.00%|0.00%(0) crit=13.90%|13.90%
Glyphs: conflagrate/incinerate/life_tap
Priorities:
flask,type=frost_wyrm/food,type=fish_feast/fire_stone/fel_armor/summon_pet,imp/snapshot_stats
life_tap,buff_refresh=1/curse_of_doom,time_to_die>=80/immolate/conflagrate/chaos_bolt
incinerate/life_tap,mana_percentage<=20,buff_refresh=1,moving=1/corruption,time_to_die>=20,moving=1
curse_of_agony,time_to_die>=30,moving=1/life_tap
Actions:
chaos_bolt Count= 20.2|14.9sec DPE= 12317|10% DPET= 8792 DPR= 50.9 pDPS= 832 Miss=0.2% Hit=7611|6274|9103 Crit=15898|13112|19025|57.0%
conflagrate Count= 27.6|10.9sec DPE= 12311|14% DPET= 9811 DPR= 22.2 pDPS=1133 Miss=0.2% Hit=6990|6476|8465 Crit=14638|13535|17692|69.7%
curse_of_doom Count= 4.0|60.9sec DPE= 16843| 3% DPET= 12834 DPR= 29.1 pDPS= 226 Miss=0.0% TickCount=4 Tick=16860|15667|19727
immolate Count= 19.3|15.7sec DPE= 11757| 9% DPET= 10313 DPR= 20.0 pDPS= 757 Miss=0.0% Hit=2190|1994|2595 Crit= 4563| 4169| 5423|56.2% TickCount=93 Tick=1700|1520|2106
incinerate Count=129.0| 2.3sec DPE= 10172|55% DPET= 6578 DPR= 21.0 pDPS=4380 Miss=0.2% Hit=6215|4879|7639 Crit=12973|10196|15966|58.7%
imp (DPS=672.8)
fire_bolt Count=161.2| 1.9sec DPE= 1248| 8% DPET= 673 DPR= 6.9 pDPS= 671 Miss=0.2% Hit=1132|1079|1258 Crit= 1698| 1619| 1887|20.8%

what i see from this test is that there is no compelling reason for a vast majority of the FAQ's readers to ever feel that a firestone is needed. furthermore to make statements like:
I have yet to see any parses or reliable sources even attempt to make the claim that SS is a viable alternative to FS
is moronic. it's the very epitome of a "viable alternative" since it is a proven dps increase at low gear levels and only a slight and arguable decrease at current gearing extremes.

i'll repeat one more time, i don't care about your opinion (and i definitely don't care about your opinion of me or my views). i will always change my opinion based on compelling evidence so provide that or drop it.

(edited for emphasis)

Beitrag von olgamaster

~80% of your damage is affected by the 1% dd increase of firestone. Less than 30% is affected by the 1% dot increase of spellstone. Firestone grants you 1.07% crit chance, which affects ~85% of your damage, and spellstone grants you 1.83% haste, which affects ~80% of your damage, as well as the DPCT of all your spells that aren't directly affected by haste (CoD). Just looking at those numbers alone, regardless of what simcraft may or may not be showing or your anecdotal evidence at bis t8 levels on a character we don't even know exists (do you spend any time outside of these forums, anyway? where do you get the time to play?) doesn't prove anything.

Try providing results over 10k+ iterations, rather than just one of each. The ones you linked show clear desparities in the results, with some spells from firestone not gaining any crit chance at all over spellstone, and some gaining upwards of 2%. All this shows me is that you are unable to provide any accurate reflections of the true difference between the two, as the differences that I mentioned can easily account for a 10-20 dps increase by using firestone over spellstone. Sample size matters, and you'll need to take that into consideration next time you try to throw numbers at someone to prove your own idiotic points over their own (and the general knowledgable community's, at that) mathematically accepted standpoint.

Beitrag von asakawa

lol

Beitrag von olgamaster

Seeing as all you've got to do now is laugh, I'll take it that you have no more mathematical evidence to support your otherwise unbacked claims? Repsonding to a valid mathematical point without manipulating numbers or distorting the appearance of results with abysmally low sample sizes doesn't really help your case, especially seeing as you've taken the liberty to create the warlock forum's FAQ for people who need information. How can people trust you if you can't even provide acceptable explanations for the filth you spew on a regular basis?

Beitrag von asakawa

this discussion stopped being constructive and i won't discuss things with someone who is simply being insulting and childish. we can do silly flaming arguments in the forum but i won't be drawn into that sort of thing in this FAQ thread.

Beitrag von lucius

I do have some macros that may be useful or not, but they do improve my sanity.

This one puts all the Demon form stuff on one button. I hate binding abilities that I can't use in normal form, and not binding them means they can get missed. It shows Meta cooldown, and then you typically click to activate, right click to charge if needed, and click again to turn on immolation aura.
#showtooltip
/cast Metamorphosis
/cast Demon Charge(Demon)
/cast Challenging Howl(Demon)
/castsequence reset=20 Immolation Aura(Demon),Shadow Cleave(Demon),Shadow Cleave(Demon),Shadow Cleave(Demon),Shadow Cleave(Demon)

Demon teleport in one button to save space. Shift click or right click to drop the Circle, normal click to teleport.
#showtooltip
/cast Demonic Circle: Summon
/cast Demonic Circle: Teleport

And Demonic Empowerment / Engineer glove enchant:#showtooltip
/cast Demonic Empowerment
/use 10
/cast Shadow Bolt

** Warlock FAQ ** [current for 3.3.5]

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Warlock FAQ [current for 3.3.5]