What's all this nonsense about not hitting the defense cap?

发布者 visas

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Quel%27Thalas&n=E%C3%B8

540. In crap gear too.

See you in Naxx. ;D

if he wants to DW cant he just stack expertise to solve the parryjib problem, btw what is expertise cap?

15% AFAIK

发布者 123609

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发布者 Golite

DW is just bad for tanking. This has been shown over and over.

Please keep statements like that out of these forums unless you have something to back it up with. Until you do so, I will have to believe that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Yes, dual wielding Death Knights produce more parriable attacks than one using a two handed weapon. Do they produce more parriable attacks than a warrior? No. Are warriors perfectly capable of tanking? Yes.

I won't bother rewriting everything I came up with myself, I'm sorry, but I've more important things to do. In fact I shouldn't be posting here in the first place. However, I encourage you to read this post on mmo-champion by Gestalt: DW tanking? Parrygib?.

Btw, I'm not saying that DW is and should be the obvious choice. In fact, I'm a 2H tank myself. What I'm trying to get through is that it's not entirely as bad as several people claim it is. Our good friend Honour here was just what it took for my inner nerd rage to burst. In a controlled manner, of course. I still tank with a 2H, I just don't shun dual wielding like so many others, just because someone tells them about parry-gibbing.

发布者 214841

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发布者 Channing

If you support dual-wield tanking with Death Knights than you support suicide.

发布者 235419

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发布者 123609

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发布者 222216

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发布者 Golite

If you can, I'll back off on my point about DW being the inferior tanking choice.

I never asked you to do so.

What I'm trying to get through is that it's not entirely as bad as several people claim it is.

I realise that my post, at first, did seem like a defense of DW tanking as the best option. It wasn't, however. And I really have a hard time noticing the similarity between mine and Honours post, which you seem to point out. Unlike him, I didn't just spout out some random comment without leaving any argumentation or backup.

I read your rant on gearing and what not, and to be honest, I am completely aware of all that. Like I have already pointed out; I'm not saying it's the ultimate, but inferior =/= broken.
I hope you get the point of this post and my previous. While I did think I explained it in a easily comprehensible manner, I shall do my best to elaborate in case you're having further troubles understanding me.

发布者 Infinitekaos

Because you haven't been parry-gibbed is a great testament to the overall skill of your healers on all those fights. They are doing a tremendous job and you should buy them pie.

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发布者 146010

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发布者 skribs

Rune strike is not even better on a DW, it's in fact worse. The only thing that's better about it is that you get better hit chance with it than with your auto-attack, but that's just compensating for where dual-wield is already weaker. Look at it this way:

Myth: Because you can hit more with DW, if you have high avoidance and/or high frequency of incoming attacks, you can lay out more rune strikes and thus get a lot of extra damage.

Fact: Rune strike's primary addition to damage comes from the 200% bonus to strike damage. I'm in crap gear with a fast 2H (3.4), and my top-end damage unbuffed (in frost presence) is 1434. A RS at that would do 3376, before armor. Since that is with a blacksmithing weapon, I will compare that to what I could do with the 1H version, assuming I still have the same AP (2541). That would overall (2541*2.5/14 + 467) lead to a top-end damage of 920, on a 2.5 attack speed, or a top-end RS of 2348. Since 3.4/2.5 (the difference in speed) is 1.36, and the difference in damage is 1.43, you can tell that you actually get MORE damage (and thus threat) out of rune strike if you use a 2H.

To put it another way, in 10 seconds you would get approximately 3 potential RS's with the 2H, and 4 with a 1H (it would be exact for the 1H, but ~10.2 sec for the 2H), which would result in 9392 damage for the 1H, and 10128 damage for the 2H.

Granted, that assumes my gear level, but the fact is the higher your gear gets, the MORE you're dependent on weapon damage, and the LESS you're dependent on that 508 base that is on RS. So the faster RS actually leads to more RP spent on less overall damage increase, IF you parry/dodge attacks that quick.
It also doesn't factor in the off-hand, which does add some damage, but still doesn't change the fact that RS is not going to benefit from DWing.

However, in defense of DW (actually more in defense of fact), the comment was made above that warriors don't tank while DW. They also don't tank while 2Hing either. Yes, they may not have AS many attacks as a DW, but they're still a different class from us. DW tanking is more viable for us than it is for them, but it's still not the best method.

Parrygib aside, it all comes down to whether you focus on strike damage or white damage. Spell damage will be roughly the same (slightly less on DW due to the higher stat values on 2H, and the likelyhood of having DPS stats), but your strikes suffer. Therefore, you're forced to buff auto-attack damage by focusing a lot more on hit than with a 2H, and you're forced to trispec to get the good white-damage talents. However, with the trispec, you miss out on UA, VB, or BS, each of which significantly increases your tanking ability (for example, if you assume 20s up-time on BS at 50% avoidance and 2.0 attack speed - with the 3.5 sec ICD on charges - then post-nerf BS will still be about 6.67% avoidance, for 1 talent point).

What's all this nonsense about not hitting the defense cap?

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