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Catholics and Baptists.
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发布者
MyTie
Oh, and do try to address my proposed solution.
发布者
Laihendi
Umm... In the decrees on marriage (twenty-fourth session) the excellence of the celibate state was reaffirmed (see also Clerical celibacy (Catholic Church)), concubinage condemned and
the validity of marriage made dependent upon its being performed before a priest and two witnesses
-- although the lack of a requirement for parental consent ended a debate that had proceeded from the twelfth century. In the case of a divorce, the right of the innocent party to marry again was denied so long as the other party is alive, even if the other may have committed adultery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_trent#Objects_and_general_results
发布者
MyTie
Umm... In the decrees on marriage (twenty-fourth session) the excellence of the celibate state was reaffirmed (see also Clerical celibacy (Catholic Church)), concubinage condemned and
the validity of marriage made dependent upon its being performed before a priest and two witnesses
-- although the lack of a requirement for parental consent ended a debate that had proceeded from the twelfth century. In the case of a divorce, the right of the innocent party to marry again was denied so long as the other party is alive, even if the other may have committed adultery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_trent#Objects_and_general_results
This was the FIRST TIME that religion played a part in marriage?
发布者
Laihendi
This was the first time Christianity took over marriage.
发布者
MyTie
"In the beginning God 'made them male and female.' … 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate" (Mt 19:4-6).
From Christ's lips. So, I forget.. Did He come before or after the Catholic church?
Edit: If that isn't good enough, I could point out that Exodus says: "Exodus, Chapter 21:3
If he come in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he be married, then his wife shall go out with him." This was in text form around 450 BC.
发布者
307081
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
发布者
Laihendi
"In the beginning God 'made them male and female.' … 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate" (Mt 19:4-6).
From Christ's lips. So, I forget.. Did He come before or after the Catholic church?
You know that marriage was being practiced thousands of years before Jesus was born right? And that's assuming he actually said that.
Edit: If that isn't good enough, I could point out that Exodus says: "Exodus, Chapter 21:3
If he come in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he be married, then his wife shall go out with him." This was in text form around 450 BC.
Wait... so now you're using the old testament as a historical reference?
... ?
And marriage was STILL being practiced thousands of years before that.
发布者
MyTie
"In the beginning God 'made them male and female.' … 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate" (Mt 19:4-6).
From Christ's lips. So, I forget.. Did He come before or after the Catholic church?
You know that marriage was being practiced thousands of years before Jesus was born right? And that's assuming he actually said that.
I agree completely. Religions were practicing it well before Christ said anything on the matter. So, when you propose that the catholic church was the first place that religion came into the picture, it's obviously NOT HISTORY.... That's what I've been saying. I'm glad you agree. So, your source is false.
Now.. back onto my origional proposal... Which I'm sure will get ignored again.So, instead of all that... I propose a solution. How about, if people do not see marriage as sacred, they respect those that do, and not use government to define it. And those that get to define marriage for themselves, respect people who are gay and let them also define marriage for themselves?
This, believe it or not, was my origional suggestion. Government keeps hands off. The people themselves decide. Everyone has to use a civil union when addressing the state.
This way, there is a separation of church and state. Gays can get married, and religions get to define marriage how they please.
发布者
Laihendi
When did religion become involved?
As the Roman Catholic Church became a powerful institution in Europe, the blessings of a priest became a necessary step for a marriage to be legally recognized. By the eighth century, marriage was widely accepted in the Catholic church as a sacrament, or a ceremony to bestow God’s grace. At the Council of Trent in 1563, the sacramental nature of marriage was written into canon law.
It's talking about when the church turned marriage into a religious institution. Before that religion could be involved, but it often wasn't. The sumerians got married, the greeks got married, the romans got married, the egyptians got married... and so on.
发布者
MyTie
When did religion become involved?
As the Roman Catholic Church became a powerful institution in Europe, the blessings of a priest became a necessary step for a marriage to be legally recognized. By the eighth century, marriage was widely accepted in the Catholic church as a sacrament, or a ceremony to bestow God’s grace. At the Council of Trent in 1563, the sacramental nature of marriage was written into canon law.
It's talking about when the church turned marriage into a religious institution. Before that religion could be involved, but it often wasn't. The sumerians got married, the greeks got married, the romans got married, the egyptians got married... and so on.
Fine. I give on this point. Religious people stole marriage from pagens. Obviously ridiculous, but have it your way... Now I will not go further in this discussion until you address my above stated proposal.
发布者
TheMediator
No. Marriage has around before any religion of any sort. A man claimed a women, and no other man could have sex with his woman. That was the most basic form that was eventually expanded upon and then picked up by different religions, and further changed.
发布者
Laihendi
Pagan seems to be a derogatory term for Ancient Sumerians, Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans... you know four of the greatest civilizations in recorded history.
发布者
MyTie
No. Marriage has around before any religion of any sort. A man claimed a women, and no other man could have sex with his woman. That was the most basic form that was eventually expanded upon and then picked up by different religions, and further changed.
You either have a time machine, a history book that no one else has, or a mouth of biased opinion.
发布者
MyTie
Pagan seems to be a derogatory term for Ancient Sumerians, Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans... you know four of the greatest civilizations in recorded history.
Ok... one more chance. Address my proposal or you go back on ignore mode for another week.
发布者
266586
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
发布者
TheMediator
Pagan seems to be a derogatory term for Ancient Sumerians, Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans... you know four of the greatest civilizations in recorded history.
How is it derogatory? All that "pagan" means is polytheist. The aforementioned groups are polytheists. Therefore, they are pagans.
"Dude Christians wouldn't steal from pagans, pagans are the suck"... totally not derogatory.
I'm getting some good laughs lately.
发布者
Skyfire
Pagan actually refers to
anyone
who is a non-believer in one of the Abrahamic religions.
Guess I'm a pagan. /chuckle.
发布者
266586
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
发布者
Laihendi
Pagan seems to be a derogatory term for Ancient Sumerians, Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans... you know four of the greatest civilizations in recorded history.
How is it derogatory? All that "pagan" means is polytheist. The aforementioned groups are polytheists. Therefore, they are pagans.
Many people use the term condescendingly.
发布者
Skyfire
a term for
polytheistic
traditions or folk religion worldwide seen from a Western or Christian viewpoint.
Relating to, characteristic of or adhering to
non-Biblical religions
.
(by extension) Savage, immoral, uncivilized, wild.
Pantheistic or nature-worshipping, neo-pagan.
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