Some Info on the New Cataclysm Start

Сообщение от 451455

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Сообщение от Patty

Stormwind shouldn't have been stupid enough to trust Onyxia?

Varithramas 'killed' a fellow Nathrezim - A huge dishonour in Dreadlord Culture.

Who cares about a stupid bloody count anyway? It doesn't detract from the fact that they both suffered.

You are only counting more of Varian's unfortunate events because you like him - Your result is biased. It doesn't matter how much you suffer - it's what you suffer. If someone calls me fat three times it is not the same as being beaten up and left in a comatose state, for instance, even if they are both bad things.

You and I do not know what effects death would have on our minds - Therefore we cannot properly judge Sylvanas' actions since her death. The Horde accepted her people when the Alliance forsaken them - Hence the name.

You also fail to see the point that the Humans are trying to destroy the Forsaken. The Archbishop in Stormwind himself thinks that burning the Forsaken while they are "alive" is a solution. Even if he believes it's the right thing to do, it's Genocide.

Сообщение от Skreeran

You're missing the point, Dark. The argument isn't "who's right, Sylvanas or Varian" it's "Sylvanas suffered more than Varian," which she did.

Сообщение от 451455

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Сообщение от Patty

They did not.Which would be why she was allowed to run Stormwind into the ground, right? If they didn't trust her she wouldn't have had any power to begin with.

And "well, they both suffered anyway" means that you are running out of responds; AKA, your wrong.I'm wrong because I said they both suffered? Lulwut?

Invalied, you just support Sylvanas because you like her.
I presented facts, even if I missed a few, Varian would still win. All of those are bad, Sylvanas' dont count for twice as much because you feel sorry for her.I don't like her, I pity her.

Like when she killed the same human she promised to give Lordaeron to? There are no records of Sylvanas being diplomatic, and Thrall denied Sylvanas. The Earthen Ring over powered him.Yet Thrall had no issues with her in Orgrimmar during the pre-WotLK event and Battle for Undercity, right?

The best come back anyone has ever came up with when defending the forsaken is...

"Shame on the humans for fighting back!"

They killed Garthios after promisng the Alliance Lordaeron.
This usualy results in war.
The humans started the fighting, if anyone fought back it was the Forsaken. The Scarlet Crusade wanted to kill the Forsaken while they beat back the scourge from Capital City. Garithos would have killed the Forsaken anyway, he was a racist bigot. Look what happened with the Blood Elves.

Сообщение от Rankkor

dude, the day varian is forced to kill his own citizens, he's twisted scared and deformed to become a monster, is forced to work for the very evil he fought to defeat, and later when broken free is rejected by everyone he knew, then u can say he suffered more.

u keep avoiding the fact that when varian was freed, he had a happy welcome in his lands.

you keep avoiding the fact that while he was captive he was never ever forced to kill his own ppl, only gladiators on the crimson ring.

you keep and keep forgetting that varian was never tortured, twisted, or deformed, he was captured, at best was slightly beated up, and had a minor cut in the face, unlike sylvannas who was tortured, burned, riped to shreds only to be sew back togheter and torn again, and had her soul ripped out of her chest.

and most importantly of all, varian was never forced to work against the very evil he wanted to fight, the black dragons planned his tragedy, but varian never was forced to work for them.

we are not debating who's right, and who's wrong, we are not debating if sylvannas actions are evil or not.

we are debating who suffered more, and on that account sylvannas suffered way more than varian, in fact the only lore character who has suffered more than her is alextrazsa.

again, they day varian is forced to kill his own people, when he becomes a deformed monster, they day every single family and friend he ever had turns his back on him and tries to kill him, the day he's forced against his will to work for his hated enemy, then u can say he has suffered more.

untill then....... hush-hush.

also you love to rub on that crap of "she saw turalyon and lordaeron rushing in to protect quel'talas, and now that ungratefull slime wanna kill humans"

well dude, that was on the second war, but on the third war who came to the aid of quel'talas? nobody, who led the atack on quel'talas? the prince of lordaeron, what army was this prince leadign? the cult of the dammed wich by that point had mostly humans, back then by whom was the scourge made of? citizens of lordaeron who cound't escape the scourge.

after she finnaly escaped from her tormet at the hands of the scourge, who trew the first stone? the humans, need I remind you that the scarlet crusaders where the first to hit the forsaken?

back then they weren't controlled by demons, get the facts togheter, balnazaar controled the leader of the crusade several years after he lost lordaeron, and before he was leading the crusade, these crusaders had already atacked the forsaken.

they are the ones fighting back, not the other way arround.

and I demand you to produce evidence that she want's to genocide the entire human race.

I dare you

Сообщение от 451455

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Сообщение от Skreeran

You're still not addressing the issue, Darkton.

Сообщение от 451455

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Сообщение от Patty

Which would be why she was allowed to run Stormwind into the ground, right? If they didn't trust her she wouldn't have had any power to begin with.

She was tricking them, read the comics.
If Stormwind knew, she would be dead sooner.Sylvanas was also tricked by Varithramas and Putress. Funny that...I'm sure if Sylvanas was aware of plans for a coup d'etat, she would have killed them quicker.

I have reason to belive you like her because her last name is "Windrunner"Is getting personal really necessary? I have said I do not like her - So I don't like her. Accept it. ZOMG I DONT LIEK A WINDRUNNER! Shock, Horror! I judge people by character, not from heritage.

Not up for disscussion.
She promised Garithos Lordaeron and stabbed him in the back.
The Scarlet Crusade is under a demons control.
It does not matter who Garithos was. I dont like him, but he still was betrayed. You dont just kill people and not expect them to return fire.
Which was one of the reasons she prepared the Blight - Self-defence. Garithos got what was coming to him. I find it quite ironic he was stabbed in the back by a former High Elf considering what happened with Kael'thas and his troops.

Again, your little scoring is pointless. Varian being taken hostage and Sylvanas being tortured, maimed, mutilated and murdered are on a completely different scale.

Сообщение от Rankkor

Sylvanas was welcomed back

oh really? so the high/blood-elves welcomed her back imidietly? vereesa welcomed her back imidietly? dude we're talking about frozen throne here, before wow, before the RAS. before the plans, before everything.

she broke free, she returned to her people, and her people tried to kill her.

-.- this is the reason I have my current sig, back when reing of chaos was out, the hero unit "dark ranger" wasn't implemented, so they gave sylvannas a generic banshee model, wich was proven to be non-cannon, her correct state after being enslaved by arthas is her dark ranger model, and she did fought against her own people, forced to kill those she loved, and swore to protect.

if u're that naive to think that arthas would enslave her, and then have her just screaming arround doing nothing then that's the reason my sig remains.

tu no das tu brazo a torcer caramba.

you say she suffered less but here's the punch line.

was varian tortured? no

was varian killed? no

was varian rejected by HIS PEOPLE? no (again, this is before wow, and before she did anything related to wow, she did nothign wrong when she broke free, she rallied other undead who also broke free and found them a place they could call home)

vas varian deformed into a monster? no

vas varian forced to kill his people? no

don't be so stubborn, varian had a tropical vacations in dubai compared to what sylvannas went trough.

Сообщение от 451455

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Сообщение от Skreeran

Not so much... The Forsaken don't even know love or joy. They accept her as leader, but she has permanently lost any kind of kinship or love she once had in life.

Sylvanas only used shriek spells and never acctually "fought" the high elves.What's that have to do anything? Her screams hurt the elves and she was forced to help kill her own people, even though she was completely conscious the whole time.

Being tourterd also goes aganist RotLK, her soul was taken out right awayThe Sunwell Trilogy would seem to indicate otherwise.

Besides, her own words in Warcraft 3 would indicate she wasn't given a clean death.

Either way, that's a lot of suffering right there. It doesn't exactly feel good to have your spirit torn out.

I never said she did not suffer, I said she suffered lessWhich she didn't.

Half of this is wrong or assumed.Not so much. Let's list Varian's suffering:

Seeing his people killed by the orcs
Seeing his own father killed at the hands of Garona
Hearing about Lothar killed by the orcs
Being enslaved by Rehgar
Having an assassination attempt made on him by Garona
Losing Bolvar, one of his best friends

Now Sylvanas:

Having her people killed by the Scourge
Having her spirit torn out by Arthas
Being forced to fight for the Scourge against her will
Losing her parents and dozens of other relations at her own unwilling hands
Being unable to return to her old form and being forced to live out whatever life she has as a monster
Being hunted by a group of human zealots

And not even counting number, her life was ruined way more than Varian's.

Varian still has his son, his people who love him, the ability to feel joy and love and enjoy life.

Sylvanas has lost everything. She's stuck in a monster's body. Her sister either won't even speak with her or has given her up for dead. She can't even feel happiness anymore. She has suffered waaaay more.

Сообщение от 451455

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Сообщение от Skreeran

Perhaps she should not go around Tirstfal Glades trying to destroy everyone and everything inhabiting it.The Scarlets started it. See the AShbringer series.

Varian's life was ruinned around when he was born, just reading the first few pages of RotLK made my heart go out to him.
I wish blizz could wright a book so people could sto saying "oh plz, dey was underz da demonz" and see the damage his life had.But he at least has hope. He at least still has his own life and his son. Sylvanas has nothing

Most of his friends and family are dead.Not all, like I said, he still has a son that loves him and people who love him. Sylvanas' people are literally unable to love.

If Sylvanas wants to kill all humans, then there is a good chance Alleria and Vereesa will leave her. She can only be happy if she lets herself be, like Thassarian.No, she is utterly unable to feel happiness. The only thing that resembles happiness for her is the satisfaction of revenge.

Сообщение от 451455

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Сообщение от Skreeran

No, she litarlly can't love or feel happiness. It's just part of her curse. And that is far worse than anything that's happened to Varian.

Сообщение от 451455

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Сообщение от Skreeran

Because she's physically incapable of it. It's part of being undead.

Сообщение от 451455

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Some Info on the New Cataclysm Start

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