Is it insulting/mistrustful for tanks to use Lay on Hands?

Сообщение от julielou2

I've recently been verbally assaulted/informed/had it gently explained to me to not use Lay on Hands by my guild. The main reason seemingly being that healers feel that there is not enough trust from the tank (me) toward the healer (them) in this situation. My thoughts are that I totally trust them doing their job but I'm just using a tool available to me to make the run more smooth and with less deaths/wipes. It's been suggested to me that I not look at either my health or the healer's mana bar during the fight other than just before pulling. This is within a guild situation and within guild runs.

My reason for using Lay on Hands has come from experience of seeing my health bar plummet, seeing a near empty healer mana bar and waiting for a healer to either heal me or tell me to use my own LoH and that either comes too late (when healers are typing not skyping/venting) or not at all, which invariably causes a wipe. Pug healers don't seem to have a problem with me doing it, particularly as most of the time it saves a wipe. When I'm healing, I don't mind tanks using it either which makes me wonder why there's such an issue.

When do other prot pala tanks use Lay on Hands in a 5 man scenario?

Is it unreasonable to use LoH in a guild run specifically?

Сообщение от Monday

In a guild run, trust your guildies. Unless the healer is a blatant moron, you should be fine.

In a regular five man, don't use it unless you're about to die. It can mess up a healer's concentration to see the health bar suddenly fill.

Сообщение от dslg604t

If you mess up a pull and you don't think your healer can take it, just !@#$ing pop it. There's really no real downside to using it. Seeing you go to 100% HP isn't going to cause your healer to become so confused that he can't heal anymore. That's just stupid.

Сообщение от pezz

If you aren't doing anything wrong but still using LoH, tell your guild that you have a damn good reason not to trust your healers: they're dropping the ball. Go ahead and trust them once they prove they can keep a tank up. If you're using it to recover from your own mistakes, first apologize for making mistakes, then ask your guild if they want you to prevent a wipe or not.

Telling you not to look at your health or healer mana is just insane.

Сообщение от julielou2

Hmmm, thank you for your responses. There's more mixed up in this probably - tanking psychology and confidence issues might not be helping and making me more raw to the criticism.

The tank's role in my opinion is to lead the run, set the pace, mark up and manage it's smooth running, unless someone else wants to step up to the mark. More-often than not they are seen as responsible for a run going wrong.

I'm still quite new to tanking and everything seems to happen so quickly in tanking - there seem to be 101 things to be thinking about and I've learnt it requires quick thinking and decisive action. The fluster is slowing down as I get more experience but I also lack self-confidence in my abilities at certain times. I panic that when things are going wrong, it's because of me, even if in hindsight I was fine and the issue was someone else's. Blame is a horrid thing and I try to avoid it though unless I'm the one to blame! ;P

I am however getting a sixth sense for when it's all going pear shaped and that's when I've been using LoH, purely as an "Oh s*1t" button but the result of even occasional use that is that healers say they feel insulted at my lack of trust and that I'm wasting their time and mana on a "long heal" (presumably Divine Heal, 3 secs and 8k mana). They feel that the potential wipes wouldn't have happened if I hadn't used LoH anyway, <insert long argument and healer logging off in rage here>, whereas I do. <shrugs>. I'll will avoid using it for friendly guild healers if they wish.

Such a little button, such a lot of angst. ;p

TL:DR Thank you for your comments so far! :D I feel a bit ganged up on by a pro-healer lobby who don't seem to care about my existing viewpoint that any player should choose when best to use their own abilities. Everyone seems to tiptoe around a healer ('s ego).

Сообщение от dslg604t

Not using cooldowns available to you = may as well run naked and rely on the healer.

Сообщение от 322291

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Сообщение от apocalypsa

Your guild healers are really, really weird. LOH is a tool given to you by blizzard; if you use it, that means youre not wasting it - not that you dont "trust" your healers. Why is trust even involved? LOH is a cooldown like any other, your healers dont @#$%^ if they see you use guardian, or even DP, right?

About the wasting a divine light, or throwing off a healers concentration: I started healing one week ago(holy paladin finally 85, yay) and even I know that you can just cancel that divine light by, I dont know, walking forward? Having a stopcasting macro?

I dont want to insult your guildies. But telling someone NOT to use a cooldown, ever, because it hurts their little ego, is in my opinion /guildkick behaviour.

About the self-confidence: it comes with time. At some point you'll find yourself going through your rotation, using cooldowns when needed, marking adds and all the other stuff without even realising it.

Also: "Stop #$%^&in, Im doing your job for you!" (from when healers whined at me for using lichborne to heal myself)

Сообщение от woohaa

I'm going to be honest, as a healer i could careless about someone using LoH. Especially, if it just saved us from a wipe. If your not sitting in the same room you can't always trust things to go right. People could have lagged out or d/c'd. they may have an incoming heal but even if your on vent do you really want to trust that there will be no vent lag, or that they didn't d'c.

All i can say is if a healer let's you get low enough to where your worried you may die. then there's a problem. You could have been standing in fire, they could have been targetted on the wrong person while spamming heals, or some other unexpected issue that caused you to drop in health.

Players generally should not have egos...it's stupid and causes problems. an ego just needs to be stomped on imo. I've been in runs where a tank isn't as geared as he thinks he is and tanks more then he should and get's the entire raid killed on trash.

If you wish to be non-confrontational then all i can say is to try to be more pro-active with your other CDs especially in high damage situations. If you think your gonna die you could save Ревностный защитник as your oh-%^&* button. That way they probably won't even notice that you did something to save yourself. But again your the tank and your job is to pop your CDs when the situation calls for it. healers should be happy you saved the group not upset.

Сообщение от livlivliv

I've had one newer tank I know whispering me really upset about exactly this, and I think it's so stupid.

If healers are so amazed by their own epicness, let's all just tank in dps gear.

I save it until it's really, really needed, as I heal too I like to think I can tell when the situation is desperate, and they would really like a tank with a suddenly full health bar. One of the best things about being a pally tank is our ability to step in and save the situation, loh, divine guardian, hop, hos, and a lot of awful pulls are fixed.

Healers who get upset should just stop it, if they have so much of a hero complex, they should roll a tank.

Сообщение от CalaelenDT

Don't even bother listening to bad players like that. If you do pop LoH they will complain that you don't trust your healers and if you don't pop it you'll wipe and they'll complain about you not using LoH.

If you shouldn't use cooldowns because that would mean you don't trust your healers, why did they even add cooldowns to the game? The same could be said for using Ardent Defender, Holy Shield or any other cooldown.

Сообщение от 375421

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Сообщение от julielou2

Goodness! :D Thank you all for your responses. I'm feeling vindicated and particularly like the Ardent Defender tip. I shall continue to use LoH, albeit more judiciously when I'm sure that my reasons for using are really crystal clear to all so I can defend myself if I'm put on the gallows again.

I did raise the question of whether other cooldowns fall into the same category as LoH, according to healers, but apparently they don't - it's ok to reduce damage to myself and others for the healer's benefit; just not to heal it up. ;D

At the moment it seems that I'm being excluded from guild runs so no more worries really - I'll do what I like in pugs without worrying about it. ;D In fact, might roll another pala alt on another server.

Interesting to hear that this has been an issue for other people and yes, it really upset me too as I felt very rudely treated and attacked for doing something I thought was of help to the group.

Thank you again.

Сообщение от CalaelenDT

If you are being excluded from Guild runs just because you used LoH to keep yourself alive, than you might want to think about joining another Guild. Punishing Guild members for not wanting to throw the dice on whether or not the Healer will be able to get his heal off in time is very poor guild management IMO.

Сообщение от 612548

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Сообщение от pezz

Your guild blows. They haven't cleared t11. They have one raid drop listed in their news for the past week and it's off of Halfus normal. If they're telling their tanks not to heal themselves I can see where the problems are.

Сообщение от 120504

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Сообщение от livlivliv

Sure, why not.
Surviving => Corpse run. Always.

It's a godsend on Baleroc too, if Крушащее лезвие happens to land.

Stop trying to hit me and hit me!

Ouch!

Lay on Hands healed Livlivliv for 700,000!

^_^

ETA: Also, maybe remind your healers that they can just interrupt their divine light/greater healing wave/whatever. You know, by, like, moving. Or jumping. Or pressing escape.... or logging the hell off and having a long hard look in the mirror.

I recommend the last one.

Сообщение от julielou2

Lay on Hands healed Livlivliv for 700,000!

<giggle>

I'm quite happy now that I WAS doing the right thing, not risking wiping did seem more logical to me. Perhaps my definition of risk is less close to the wire than other people's but lag, dcs, etc etc are not exactly uncommon. No, wipes are not the end of the world but it's also far better not to have them.

Thank you pala community. <group hug>

Сообщение от hatman555

It's a godsend on Baleroc too, if Крушащее лезвие happens to land.

Lay on Hands healed Livlivliv for 700,000!

I really do wish Lay on hands were this good for Decimation Blade, and yes, it would be amazing if you could use it to heal someone for 700,000, but unfortunately DK's broke this one for us with their death strike.

----> Крушащая атака Apply Aura: Mod Healing Power - %

With a 90% reduction in healing, DK's and paladin decimation tank can not break the fight with heals that are based on your max health pool.

Sorry guys, it just doesn't work =

Back to the main topic: To quote JG Wentworth "It's your Cooldown, use it when you need it."

Seriously, your the tank, your going to make your own decisions, if you want to blow a 100% heal to top you off 20%, its not any different from using your Древний защитник, Ревностный защитник, or Божественная защита at the wrong time.

Use it when you need it, and use it well like any other CD' and no healer should %^&*! at you. If they do, hit them with the JG call in caps =]

Cheers,
Turkey Hat

Is it insulting/mistrustful for tanks to use Lay on Hands?

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