Humans were made to run

Сообщение от Squishalot

You're claiming that humans are made to run long distance generally, based on the single argument that they're good at running things down in a hot environment because other animals can't handle the heat as well as humans can.

This is a logical fallacy.

Do you challenge that?

Сообщение от 184848

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Сообщение от 324987

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Сообщение от Squishalot

Humans perform best against other animals in the heat but humans themselves even perform better when they are not running in the heat.

That's irrelevant to whether we are evolutionarily predisposed to run, relative to other animals. Try again?

Сообщение от 324987

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Сообщение от 109094

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Сообщение от Squishalot

Humans aren't native to Russia or any other cold climate, so they never had to run animals down in the cold. I can't prove that they are good distance runners compared to other animals in cold weather, because of there being no samples on it. What I can prove is humans being able to exhaust animals to death in Africa. Humans originated in Africa, therefore it is only logical that there running adaptations would be based on running against African animals in the heat.

So let me break your statements down.

A)

Humans aren't native to Russia or any other cold climate, so they never had to run animals down in the cold. I can't prove that they are good distance runners compared to other animals in cold weather, because of there being no samples on it.

You cannot demonstrate that humans are good distance runners compared to other animals in cold weather.

B)

What I can prove is humans being able to exhaust animals to death in Africa.

You are demonstrating that humans are good distance runners compared to other animals in hot weather.

C) (from the first page)

I think most of yall are missing the point that the running humans excel at is long distance running.

So:

(A) + (B):

a) Humans are above average at running in this scenario.

(C):

b) Therefore, humans are above average at running generally.

I'm not putting words in anybody's mouths.

We lost our tails (used by most other animals to help keep balance) and gained Butt Cheeks which help balance us when we run. Strange as that sounds, thats why we have bloated buttocks (bloated relative to other animals).
Evolutionary trait developed to help us balance while moving at speed and its not the only one we have:

Long legs and Achilles tendons, not necessary for walking and absent in most species, combined with large joints, arched feet, amply muscled buttocks, sweat glands and heads controlled by tendons and shaped for cooling. Humans have bodies built for marathons

That's post-justification. That only says that humans as a species are designed to run faster than other ape descendents.

With balance and speed in mind, it's hard to go past a kangaroo. Comfortable travel speed of 25km/h (with no specified time limit), max speeds of up to 70km/h if necessary for short sprints. Survives in Australia, with regular summers of 40+ degrees celcius.

Kangaroos and wallabies have large, stretchy tendons in their hind legs. They store elastic strain energy in the tendons of their large hind legs, providing most of the energy required for each hop by the spring action of the tendons rather than by any muscular effort. This is true in all animal species which have muscles connected to their skeleton through elastic elements such as tendons, but the effect is more pronounced in kangaroos.

There is also a link between the hopping action and breathing: as the feet leave the ground, air is expelled from the lungs; bringing the feet forward ready for landing refills the lungs, providing further energy efficiency. Studies of kangaroos and wallabies have demonstrated that, beyond the minimum energy expenditure required to hop at all, increased speed requires very little extra effort (much less than the same speed increase in, say, a horse, dog or human), and that the extra energy is required to carry extra weight. For kangaroos, the key benefit of hopping is not speed to escape predators—the top speed of a kangaroo is no higher than that of a similarly sized quadruped, and the Australian native predators are in any case less fearsome than those of other countries — but economy: in an infertile country with highly variable weather patterns, the ability of a kangaroo to travel long distances at moderately high speed in search of food sources is crucial to survival.

Now, these guys are efficient!

Сообщение от 109094

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Сообщение от 457614

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Сообщение от Squishalot

You still seem to be mistaking "built for speed and good at it" for "Built for speed and the best ever at it"

No one in this thread has tried to claim that Humans are the greatest running species on the planet but you seem to be defending as if someone has

Humans have some of the best endurance of any animal.

First post by vikingboy in this thread, second sentence.

A lot of birds have wings that make them capable of flying. Some birds have particular traits that make them more resilient to rain (eg, any of the water birds - ducks, geese, pelicans, etc) and therefore fly better in the rain. Therefore, those birds are made to fly, and others aren't.

This is essentially the logical fallacy that I'm suggesting vikingboy doesn't get he's making. Humans have those biological features that you mentioned because we had to do a helluva lot of walking around in the old days, without domesticated animals etc. We also happen to have good resistances to heat. As a result, the combination of those things make us above average at running around in the heat.

But that doesn't make us 'made to run' as if other animals aren't.

Сообщение от 109094

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Сообщение от Squishalot

Im not sure if english is your first language but "some of the best" does not mean "nothing else is better".

Your argument is essentially:

a) Humans are above average at running in this scenario.
b) Therefore, humans are above average at running generally.

You still seem to be mistaking "built for speed and good at it" for "Built for speed and the best ever at it"

No one in this thread has tried to claim that Humans are the greatest running species on the planet but you seem to be defending as if someone has

Humans have some of the best endurance of any animal.

First post by vikingboy in this thread, second sentence.

Context. You should learn the value of it.

But that doesn't make us 'made to run' as if other animals aren't.

...

You're mistaking 'capable of doing' with 'made to do'. The fact that humans are capable of doing something does not mean that it's the evolutionarily designed to.

Again, let me highlight:

a) Humans are able to run.
b) Humans are able to deal with heat.
c) Therefore, humans can run long distances in hot conditions.

Suppose we placed it in a non-heated environment. The key point in the hunting equation - the prey succumbing to heat exhaustion - is no longer a valid one. In this environment, humans are nothing special.

This is my point. I don't believe that exhaustion hunting has as much to do with a human's ability to run, as with our ability to withstand heat. This is a more valid conclusion that takes into consideration more than the single data point that vikingboy is using to conclude that it must be because humans are made to run.

Presumably, an animal that was made to run long-distance, using exhaustion hunting as an example of such evolutionary design, would be capable of hunting in many conditions. The fact that the only cited example is a heat-related scenario would suggest that a heat-related answer is a legitimate counter-theory.

Сообщение от 109094

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Сообщение от 324987

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Сообщение от Squishalot

Again, you're missing the point.

You keep bringing up statements about heat and exhaustion. That has nothing to do with the ability to run, and is simply a measure of endurance. You could apply the same test to chin-ups and sit-ups as well.

For the statement 'humans are made to run' to be correct, it has to be demonstrated that the resilience that makes them decent runners has been evolved for the purposes of running, not for any other reasons.

Skin and the ability to sweat is an evolutionary advantage in hot climates, no doubt, but you missing one of the key points; Humans run faster than animals walk, but slower than animals sprint.

If anything, the key evolutionary gain is our ability to cognitively assess how fast we need to pace ourselves. An animal that is capable of sprinting is probably capable of loping for decent periods of time at a speed faster than a human can do a sustained run. The fact that they don't do it is because they have little incentive to. If we could run at 70km/h to chase down things, I doubt that we'd jog much either.

a) Humans are able to run.
b) Humans are able to deal with cold temperature
c) Therefore, humans can run long distances in cold conditions.

That doesn't prove that they excel in running long distances in cold conditions. Still logic fail.

I'm not trying to prove any point about evolution. I'm trying to demonstrate to you that your logic is flawed and open your eyes to the fact that you might not be right.

Сообщение от 324987

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Сообщение от Squishalot

My point is, we will never really know the answer to that.

Having said that, you can build biomechanical simulations to test what would happen if animals did use different strategies, but I certainly don't have access to those tools. I don't think you can make any conclusions about whether humans are more 'made to run' than other animals until you look at all the data, which is why I think you're assuming too much after looking at the single example that you're citing.

Сообщение от 664010

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Сообщение от MrSCH

This isn't time sensitive and we need this thread to keep going! I'll start;

I feel that Humans evolved to be stood up because in our natural environment it gave us the advantage. In tall grass, we could see further and as such potentially be more successful than your average four-legged fiend. Yes you, Shadowfiend.

And we got bigger brains to ensure this victory, Shadowfiend. Piss off.

Сообщение от Hyperspacerebel

I can't believe I missed this thread.

Humans were made...
Amen! Preach it, brother!

Humans were made to run

Ответить