Alot of people here complaining about the quality of writing, it isn't "terrible writing" and the writers haven't gone "full stupid" again, they never did since the series started. The writers are always intelligent at what they write and good at writing it as everything fits somehow. Team Ion is doing fine, sorry you people are disappointed your fan theories didn't turn out to be canon. (That's a joke, don't get triggered by it) Nobody here has logically explained the issues and cannot since there isn't any context. The lore wasn't "thrown in the garbage" and wolfheart wasn't a "dumpster fire" either. Also there aren't any "gigantic plot holes". As for Wod making no sense, I wasn't a fan of the expansion but it DOES make sense, as unlike you people I used my brain to figure out how it DOES make sense. There isn't NO logic either. Stop pretending a minor character nobody really cared about acting evil out of context is the end of the world, because it isn't. The story is perfectly fine, isn't garbage. The lore is perfectly fine, isn't garbage either, in context every character has had an understandable reason for becoming evil, stop arguing through emotions and bringing up the "precious horde" strawman for Ion and his team. No dumpster fire, but alot of dumpster brains. Also Blizzard is a great company, has great writers, no I am not getting paid and no I don't care what the mentally challenged in Blizzard's communities have to complain about, I have been in the community for years and the second somebody challenges another person's complaint they completely lose it and resort to insults and false equivalences and strawmanning as well as logical fallacies whilst pretending you are smart. There isn't any "mental illness" in the lore or story either for the "special" individual who brought that up as a criticism in a prior post. I am an alliance player, love the Night Elves as well and I say there isn't a thing wrong here, you guys like to claim "Bad writing" the second your feewings get hurt by big bad Blizzard's decisions. As for why the Horde is following Sylvanas, keep in mind Nathanos is more loyal to her than anybody else and Sylvanas has the deadliest weapons and army of the Horde and can raise them eternally as slaves. And enough with the stupid "morally grey" meme. Only the sheep in the community say that, it wasn't what Ion said, he didn't specify the Horde because in case you didn't notice, not everybody in the Horde has the same personality as Sylvanas. The rest have better reasons for fighting and alot of it has to do with how Sylvanas is dangerous, Baine called her our as well then backed down as she has the plague, he doesn't. Don't want to start unnecessary fights between themselves. And stop with the stupid "honor" argument. Not everybody in the Horde is was or will always be honorable and were historically dishonorable in prior variations of the Horde. But nah, "Morally Grey" as a strawman is a good argument apparently. "Morally grey morally grey morally grey" shut up about that, it isn't an actual argument. That isn't even what he said, Donald Trump is the president of the US and alot of people follow him, I am guessing by the logic of you people you would think everybody who listens to what he has to say always completely agree with everything he says and have identical personality's as well? Just saying, I have heard bad arguments before but you people would be terrible writers. Actually EXPLAIN with proof and LOGIC instead of "but they prefer they Horde and hate nelfs WAHHHHH" or "The horde are all evil and that's MORALLY GREY". They haven't exactly shown preferential treatment to either side lately in case you forgot. Not Garrosh 2.0 either, nobody has the means of concretely proving that besides Blizzard, innocent until proven guilty is a thing.
By the way you guys, Wolfheart is a great novel. And there is a difference between opinion and "bad writing". Every complaint I have heard here, as usual in the WoW community is wrong. Now the complaints about the gameplay issues are completely valid, but that doesn't matter here. Wod made perfect sense once I did think about it. The claims it wasn't well written are invalid as there is more to suggest it was well written. Stop acting inconsistent just to find your next favorite thing to complain about when it in reality is a complete non issue, grow up and I will consider it and be willing to admit I am wrong if there is a logical argument. Sira doesn't sound good out of context but there isn't any context, raising more undead is able to make them enslaved if necessary which actually was established by the Forsaken as well as the Scourge, undead are undead, the Forsaken specifically had broken free. There isn't anything in the lore saying it cannot happen, in other words the individual claiming he didn't miss anything, you did misconstrue something, which is a fallacy and actually missed a significant fact. Sorry if I "sound" too arrogant here, but it gets pretty annoying to here people be wrong about things they complain about all the time. (As usual)
Last point, Sira Moonwarden's writing and characterization will be just fine, it doesn't ever once say that "night elves cannot be brought back except by somebody as powerful as the Lich King" in the lore, I heard a similarly stupid argument pertaining to the trolls, uh no they can be reanimated as undead as well. They aren't reanimated frequently but that's just how it was, just because you didn't see anybody else other than the LK reanimate a nelf doesn't mean they can't. It's a dumb argument that doesn't have a basis of fact. Sira Moonwarden if she was killed and revived by the forsaken she would likely willingly join the forsaken as the Night elves hate undead, wouldn't be accepting of her anyways, Tyrande would've thought of her as a traitor as an undead anyways as she doesn't exactly have a good opinion of them. Galen Trollbane was brought back as an undead and had free will, but that doesn't mean they cannot be enslaved, she likely didn't enslave him then as she wasn't as accepting of eviler methods like enslaving horde against their will as undead, she likely didn't make him enslaved as she initially gave undead the chance to pledge their allegiance to her, it isn't like she is as altruistic now as she was then. Or the alternative and her resurrection made her believe the night elves wouldn't accept her anymore. (which they wouldn't honestly)Also Blizzard isn't butchering their characters minor or otherwise and never has, and they won't lose their amount of lore characters as a result of death either. Btw nobody bother using the "shill" argument, I have had my complaints on how Blizzard does things as well, but I started actually thinking about things like story, lore, and characters and writing more. Can you people stop acting stupid over these topics and attacking the writers over things you don't actually understand but pretend to? And this isn't an attack on you, but you are acting like what I just said.
Buff Restoration Shamanssssssssss plz! :O
No Sira, why? WHY DID THEY KILLED HER! WHY HER? Wasn’t Teldrassil with lots of night elves that died there enough! Why do they always treat the Kaldorei like %^&*? Here’s my hope to not see Maiev falling into the same fate as well! I will NEVER FORGIVE BLIZZARD FOR THIS!
These are Sira's lines and she is not being controlled. She has been turned and believes her goddess has deserted them. This IS free will!
Ehhh. This is just horrible. Another spit in the face of NE players. I only hope Maiev kills these abominations as soon as possible.
Wow, more children acting through emotion? They don't "ALWAYS" treat the Kaldorei like "%^&*" as you say, and nobody cares about you feelings, go ahead and never forgive Blizzard. As for the "Ehhh this is just horrible. Another spit in the face of NE players". Quit acting entitled, the night elves didn't have it hard ENOUGH in comparison to other Alliance races, lose another minor character (Sira Moonwarden) nobody intelligent even cared alot about. Okay, and? It's not like she was an important character to the plot. Bunch of hack frauds complain in this comment section.
The Forsaken, Sira Included, have free will, the Problem isn't that Sylvanas is Controlling her will, the problem is what these individuals are seeing on the other side, and what their minds twisted by Death try to grasp for after being turned to undeath. Its the fact that they were brought back from a land of Death Much Deeper than what we players experience that is causing the twists in their mindset.... Sylvanas is just getting to them first and while they're coming to grips with what happened, she's giving them a good narrative, probably even talking to them from beyond the grave with her Valkyr, perhaps even brainwashing them to be more accepting of their resurrections and joining the Forsaken(most likely with Fear of what they're already experiencing). BUT, that is a Far Cry from Magical Mind Control like the Helm of Domination. She doesn't Nearly have the ability to control Intelligent Undead and she wants them to be Intelligent, Intelligence leads to Competency. Without mind control, do you honestly think that in that vulnerable time after the rising of an Important Undead Figure that if they were to challenge her, they'd be let free? Or do you think they'd be killed again? You don't raise powerful people without a backup plan. No, these people Are following Sylvanas of their own free will, otherwise they would have been put back to the grave, or escaped at the first Real opportunity.Btw Regular Player Undead are brought back with free will and an allowance to do whatever we want Because of how weak we are when we're first raised x3 Lorewise, it took us Ages to get where we are, just like everyone else.
Good to see at least Maiev and the Wardens abandoning their pseudo-neutrality and fight for the Alliance! First Knights of the Silver Hand, then the Wardens, who is the next, I wonder?
it's very bothersome to see characters reversed by magic by their OWN MURDERERS. Or becoming a travesty of their old persona, whatever the geeky reasoning (curse, madness, amnesia..ho it's not a soap sorry, undead teen angst nihilism... )Arthas was an evil lich king and it was the whole point, so it was fine. Drama, bad actions and stuff.But now, with the horde, it's even worse than Garrosh ! Again the horde, if you remove the whole "honor honor honor" questlines, are a bunch of murderers, slaying civilians, and now desecrating heroes.Yes, Saurfang, okay, cool, but all the others characters are following that whole evilness, again, like with Garrosh. I guess, suddenly, in a newer patch, some NPC will flip-flop and be on "the good fight".And Saurfang it's such a pussy, all the time waiting, all the time questionning himself. A character with doubt and introspection is cool, but sometimes he has TO ACT.What I mean is: that game, and I guess our time, needs heroes with a REAL MORAL COMPASS : nobility of heart and their heart in the good place for the real fight.-for now, I cease to play my horde character. I hope Blizzard will not do a whole "but alliance is grey and evil too" in a future patch just for balance. I'll stop to play the game then.
Isn't it funny when silly people criticize things when they pretend to be smart? Sure is. XD Seriously, these type of strawman arguments about the undead and their "teen angst" are completely stupid, at least try to make your point.
Are we glad Darkshore is Alliance territory and Sylvanas does not know where it is?
"Isn't it funny when silly people criticize things when they pretend to be smart? Sure is. XD Seriously, these type of strawman arguments about the undead and their "teen angst" are completely stupid, at least try to make your point."I'm not "smart". I'm just writing about what really annoys me in Warcraft's narrative (but you can see the same stuff in Starcraft for example and many comics : the coolness of the evil-dude is enough to excuse it)My point here: It's a TIRED trope. The narrative is boring and always using the same path. Also, I'm fed up with the excuses and bias Blizzard's writer push with the horde.First Thrall, making evil characters from old games in "heroes from the past", Then Garrosh becoming all evil but the horde is still honorable, you don't understand them.. Then Grommash in Draenor, where he is a conqueror with his army killing whole villages and sacrificing civilians (both seen in first zones of the expansions), but in the end, the authors decided to make him talk about freedom and stuff... hu What ? "Draenor is freeee" , yeah evil dude with big teeth, from you !And now, again, with Sylvanas. Acting definitely like a monster, and the whole horde behind it, and players "forced" to follow that narrative by questlines. I'm sure, next patchs will explain how much the horde is in fact noble, pure, kind and all about Familly and how Sylvanas forgot that for tragic reasons... and whatever.Yes, I did write "teen angst", because I'm convinced it's what is at the core of the writing of the Horde and in many Blizzard games. Maybe it's because of Metzen's influence and it will slowly change, Metzen is also a comic writer, and you can see the same kind of development for example the Decepticons in his Transformers stories.But in the end what we get in Warcraft :- again and again the same story for the Horde, and how much they are cool and not evil when doing evil.- again nothing creative with the alliance and having established characters being "broken" (put in ice, personality reversed and so on )It's obvious Blizzard has ONE story. The Horde is easiest to write for from their point of view. But it's boring. It was already boring in WoD expansion.How many times do we need to watch the same point made ever and ever and ever ? I don't "care" about the lore's reasoning (like "Saurfang is in jail, he can't act, don't you know that ?" ). The lore is created and written by authors. The lore is only what authors decide it is. Nothing else.These authors need to stop to dilute their characters and always repeating the same point years after years.-Of course World of Warcraft is more than the global boring storyline. The art is beautiful, some game mechanics are solid, and anywhere, there is some charming little stories in small quests.But when talking about the "big story".. my god, how much it's childlish and repetitive... They want a drama ? push both honorable and sincere leaders both forced by politics and needs of their populations to go to war. Write characters inspiring both side of the players. Write a real tragedy teaching lessons about ideology, honest mistakes and how at time, even with best heart, you can't always satisfy everyone.And NOT in a novel, IN THE GAME for once. Because I know what people will tell me "but, you didn't the 25th novel where there is a tragedy, and it explains why forsaken are now.. " whatever ! it's not in the game and the game suffers because of it.-Think about the storyline in the game with Malfurion and Tyrande. From the point of view of an alliance character it's insane. The characters run away from the fight, from saving soldiers and civilians. They simply leave after a Saurfang/Sylvanas fight. and Saurfang having backstabbing (and immediately making a talk about how much he is noble and a pussy... god Saurfang, act like a hero ONE day).In the game, the whole writing is bad and nonsensical : it's not logical. Of couuuurse, all you need was to read an other NOVEL... Okay, cool for geeks. But the game, the video game we're playing, is suffering from that hole. The novels should be integrated in the game, summarized, just the big points, maybe a more elaborate cut scenes, but we need theses informations IN the game.so to conclude:- boring big story making the same point ever and ever and ever and ever. Yes BLIZZARD, I understood : Horde are good noble savage ! YES. Thank you. now, could you write them as being "honorable" for once ? - always the same trope of breaking characters: reversing them at the whim of the writers' fancy. - the alliance not being interesting for writers. Blizzard has a tendency to prefer dark black from night darkness nihilist characters like Korrigan or Arthas ever and ever.- breaking stuff in "angst" for being cool. Sometimes I wish Blizzard will be reminded to create beauty and wonders to sell their game or adding something worth to fight for in the stories.- the game is always solid, with great efforts and work in it
okay, I'll confess, I'm looking forward for the Vol'jin's horde again ^^;