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[3.3.3] Unholy PVE DPS - 24/03
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Messaggio di
251602
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Messaggio di
woohaa
whats average dps for that 17/0/54 spec.did heroic UP today and wasnt really impressed with the numbers but someone i know i was in a 10 man ICC with him and he was pullin like 7k dps
im still kinda thinkin about staying blood but i dont know,cuz i know i was unholy in the past and didnt really like playing it.but i havent actually did like a 10-25 man raid in my unholy spec yet
i know with my blood spec(51/0/20) i usually do around 5-5.5k dps
If you raid with the person pulling 7k dps compared to your 5k...you should do a recount comparison and of course gear comparison. This will help you find out what your doing wrong.
Is his stat weighting better?
Does recount show him hitting SS 500 times to your 250?
Do you pop your CD's and trinkets when your supposed to?
Do you keep your selfbuffs up? ie: desolation, bone shield, HoW?
Does your ghoul die and you forget to resummon it?
there's a ton of factors on why he's doing 2k more dmg then you. I'd like to say it's gear but we'd need to compare armory's
Messaggio di
MegaVolt
A question about the priority system:
Often enough there will be movement in a fight and assuming I am in blood presence it happens quite often that I just don't have the time to burn all my runes and runic power.
With SS hitting really hard now is it safe to assume that it is better to waste runic power (being capped out) then wasting runes (not using SS despite the runes being available for it)?
So assuming I have full runic power and all runes available and diseases on the target ... I hit SS and not DC, right?
Another one: Where to take 2 points from if I want imp. uh presence? I enjoy the movement speed a lot and think it might be worth it.
Am I right to assume that uh presence is probably superior on movement heavy single target fights while blood presence will be superior on stationary fights as well as AoE fights? I know there is not enough data to say for sure but this should be the general guideline, right?
Last question: I know that ability GCDs are not affected by haste while spell GCDs are. How does haste affect DK abilities? Do DC and IT count as proper spells and get a shorter GCD from spell haste or is none of the DK GCDs affected by haste?
Messaggio di
251602
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Messaggio di
MegaVolt
But I think BP will be superior to UP also in heavy movement fights, since all your attacks (beside IT and DC) benefit from it.
Haste shouldn't affect our GCDs on our abilities so the GCD is always 1.5sec with 0 or 1k haste being them spells or not.
Well, in movement fights I'm standing there with tons of RP and runes all the time. UP is not only about the movement speed (which also helps a lot, not with dps but with engagement time) but also about being able to empty all those runes and RP very fast due to the 1s GCD. I think it will be superior to BP even with only little movement in a single target damage encounter.
As soon as multiple targets are hit the additional damage from BP will of course be far superior.
About haste: "Shouldn't" doesn't sound so sure. The reason I'm asking is that I know for a fact that spellcaster GCDs are reduced by haste. This affects all spells of all caster classes. Now DKs are not a caster class but they do have spells. But I'm not sure if the DK spells qualify as "real" spells or as a special kind of attack ability.
I always assumed that none of the DK abilities are affected by haste, that they all count as attack abilities and not as spells. But in the UH DK topic is a paragraph saying that UP will beat BP even on non-movement single target fights if the DK has very, very low haste (like 250 or lower). So I'm wondering: How can the amount of current haste have any effect on the whole BP vs UP thingy if haste doesn't work on any DK GCDs (and the biggest benefit of UP being the 1s GCD)? The only possible explanation I see is that some abilities (e.g. DC or IT) are affected by haste and thus with high haste the UP GCD reduction to 1 second becomes less and less valuable. But that goes against anything I've read in DK guides so far, none of them speak of haste affecting DK GCDs. That's why I'm confused now.
Messaggio di
251602
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Messaggio di
251602
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Messaggio di
MegaVolt
Sorry I can't link the comment about UP beating BP :( It was in the old 3.2 UH DPS main post there (
http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t72364-unholy_dps_3_3_all_you_wanted/
) but since it now got updated to 3.3 the section isn't in there any more.
I found a post on the official forums (but only from a random guy) stating that even though some DK abilities are spells haste will still not affect them.
The thing with UP is that if you only get like 10 seconds on the boss and then have to move again it is not enough time to unload all runes and RP. So if your GCD is reduced to 1s you can use 10 abilities in those 10s instead of only 6 abilities with an 1.5s GCD. Even without any damage buff at all those 10 abilities should be much better then 6 with a 20% buff.
That and movement will be a lot faster of course.
Messaggio di
dervasavred
But in the UH DK topic is a paragraph saying that UP will beat BP even on non-movement single target fights if the DK has very, very low haste (like 250 or lower). So I'm wondering: How can the amount of current haste have any effect on the whole BP vs UP thingy if haste doesn't work on any DK GCDs (and the biggest benefit of UP being the 1s GCD)?
The UP > BP was true in 3.2.2 for
DW UH ONLY
if the player could not reach a certain threshold of Haste. Since we're discussing 2H here, it's a moot point.
As far as GCDs go, to my knowledge Haste DOES affect our GCD on rune abilities (note: NOT spells) but does not affect rune refresh rates (until Cata).
2H Unholy will _always_ want to be in Blood Presence: we have absolutely no need for extra GCDs.
In each 20 second rotation, I have as many as 3 free GCDs if I play my cards right. Stay in Blood Presence.
As for the movement speed debate for IUP, just get Cat's Swiftness/Tuskarr's Vitality on your boots and call it a day.
Messaggio di
304214
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Messaggio di
MegaVolt
The UP > BP was true in 3.2.2 for DW UH ONLY if the player could not reach a certain threshold of Haste. Since we're discussing 2H here, it's a moot point.
As for the movement speed debate for IUP, just get Cat's Swiftness/Tuskarr's Vitality on your boots and call it a day.
UP is faster then those enchants.
And what does it matter if it was for UH DW or UH 2H? If UH DW somehow benefits from UP on single target fights depending on the current haste it still raises the question if haste has any effect on DK GCDs. And this question is relevant for UH 2H as well. Just look in this topic: When I ask what haste does affect for DKs I get 4 different answers from 3 people. It's almost like askin a doctor ;)
Can someone please clear this up?
Messaggio di
dervasavred
UP is faster then those enchants.
But UP is a DPS loss vs. BP which was the argument. Then, I made a point that if someone were looking for the movement benefit (which someone was since they asked about it) to add the 8% from those enchants instead: then you can have both worlds: a movement increase and a DPS increase.
And what does it matter if it was for UH DW or UH 2H? If UH DW somehow benefits from UP on single target fights depending on the current haste it still raises the question if haste has any effect on DK GCDs.
I already addressed the GCD question. But mainly, the difference is that this thread is for 2H since DW is pretty much dead for UH.
The other reason for the Haste was Necrosis. Now that we skip it, it shoots it in the foot.
Can someone please clear this up?
Hit a dummy with no haste then chug a haste pot with haste gear on and watch GCDs.
Messaggio di
251602
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Messaggio di
220291
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Messaggio di
251602
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Messaggio di
woohaa
@megavolt
i fail to see how you have full rp and runes up. if you have to run out and can't melee, why wouldn't you spam your DC while waiting to run back in? and while your running back in you can IT since it has a 20yd range. I think your grasping at straws and for whatever reason you want IUP your trying to come up with reasons for it. honestly if you have runes up all the time and Full RP you probably shouldn't be in UP since your not using your runes up fast enough. the only way UP is a dps increase is if your using up the runes fast enough to make being in UP worth it. If you always have runes up then your just wasting them and you should just stick to BP to get the increase in damage to all your skills. But if you think it's worth it just get it cause honestly your wasting italiandks time.
haste for dks basically increases your auto attack speed and that's it. we get no decrease in GCD's nor do we get a reduced cd time on our runes.
Messaggio di
MegaVolt
@megavolt
i fail to see how you have full rp and runes up. if you have to run out and can't melee, why wouldn't you spam your DC while waiting to run back in? and while your running back in you can IT since it has a 20yd range. I think your grasping at straws and for whatever reason you want IUP your trying to come up with reasons for it.
You are confusing my two questions here.
First I wanted to know what ability to use when all resources are available. Meaning full RP, all runes on CD - is it better to let RP cap out and cast SS or is it better to leave runes longer on CD and prevent RP from capping by casting DC. The answer to this question is: Use SS. It's just to clearify the priority list. I don't really like to stick to a fixed rotation, it tends to get screwed up in a fight anyway. If I understand it correctly the UH priority list is:
ghoul active > IT active > BP active > SS > DC if close to RP cap > BS > DC
I was not sure if the DC (close to RP cap) might rank higher then SS.
Another problem is that often enough the engagement time between movement phases of the boss is not long enough to unload all skills. There doesn't necessarily mean I stand there with full RP and full runes (which would really be quite silly) but it means that often enough I have quite a few runes on cooldown and no way to use them all up and also keep my RP from being capped. This was an issue for me with my 3.2 unholy build, I haven't respecced for 3.3 yet.
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178943
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Messaggio di
285678
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41852
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