Do Dk's still get ridiculed purely for playing their class?

Publication par Trishi

It's not the class or the race, it's the fact that people do not accept why they are playing it. Blood elf DK players will always say stuff like

Zephirotdkelf: I'm playing BE for the awesomesauce racial, I gots silence and can use to replenish RP for a DC.
Decentplayer: DKs already got 3 forms of interrupt regardless of spec, and Mind Freeze has a short cd of 10s. 15 RP every 2 minutes means an extra Death Coil per boss fight.
Decentplayer: Orc can deal more damage/healing with the deathcoils within Bloodfury uptime.
Decentplayer: You picked elf because you're gay and enjoy the superbly immaculate hair.
Zephirotdkelf is now offline.

Also, DK(any)/ret paladin/DPS warrior. Are the EASIEST classes to gear, there are ridiculous ammounts of plate on Cata Heroics. No I'm serious, OBSCENE ammounts of plate. So you start at 55, get to 85 in lets say 3-4 weeks (average player, not hardcore nerds that quit life to level up). And once you start cata heroics you can gear up to raid in 2 days tops.

Oh and DK voice makes BE sound masculine, which is totally wrong.

Hell, I may be new, and I was going to write out a long post explaining why I'm saying what I'm about to say, but, I have ribs in the oven and I'm hella hungry.

You're an idiot.

Kinda in the same situation.

And I agree. You make it sound as if the race choice alone can make you a bad player.

I think you mispelled "ElitistJerk" when you opened the browser.

Publication par Sujezz

I don't care if someone doesn't like my female blood elf dk. I hate worgen animations and no1 saw me writing "Don't play worgen 'cause I don't like it". I don't like big shoulders on orcs, tauren animation of running, and troll melee animations. Goblins were not available when I was creating my dk, and I didn't want to make undead dk as it was for me "killed then turned into scourge then freed then again scourge". BE racial is not bad, but that was last option for me.

Regarding topic. Yes, you still see "omg another dk". When I was lvling my shaman and I said "Hi, 1st time healing this dungeon" every1 was like "Ok mate, we'll explain". When I was lvling dk and wrote "Hi, 1st time tanking this dungeon", every1 literally left party, I found new ppl and didn't tell them I never did this dungeon and I was able to complete it without a single wipe. Get used to ppl complain about you playing dk, but once they see your talents are spent properly and your not tanking in other presence than blood you will be fine. There will be players who will write "Go fros pres ffs, u don't know how to tank". Just link them blood pres and frost pres and write "read both and stfu", they'll know who's in charge

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Publication par Trishi

There will be players who will write "Go fros pres ffs, u don't know how to tank". Just link them blood pres and frost pres and write "read both and stfu", they'll know who's in charge

...Leveling a Disc Priest through Outland, this is the prime problem. Some people are stuck in the past it seems. I see a ton of tanks in frost presence, and they persistantly hold on to their faulty belief that Frost is the tanking presence. Worse, some still believe any spec can tank. Not much of a problem in Outland, and while I always point it out by the end of the dungeon, just before the last boss, I don't really consider it a problem at that point in the leveling process.

But even being from another server, and having a very low chance of ever encountering the guy again, I can't help but feel sad for whoever has to deal with them in Cataclysm dungeons.

I do have some sort of proof from Outland at least, that people have a tendency to flame DK tanks more than the rest. I were in a dungeon group with a Paladin who couldn't hold threat even against 2 mobs, but no one utters a word. Even with the same group, after said paladin have left the group because he got level, and we got a DK tank instead. We did 3 dungeons with the Paladin, and 7 with the Deathknight. People instantly flamed him for being bad at holding threat against 6 or more mobs at once, nevermind the fact that the DK were:

1. Better at staying alive
2. Was actively using taunts if anything left him, and were doing well at keeping threat from 4 mobs without much issue, unlike the Paladin
3. Had almost 900 dps, twice that of the Paladin
4. Were almost twice as fast to go through the dungeons as the previous one
5. Could understand and write English, something the Paladin couldn't.

Add to that the fact that I, the healer, had no issues keeping everyone topped off, while retaining full mana, and no one ever died. I can't help but feel that people tend to expect more of Death Knights than any other tank, and I simply don't get why. I remember it full well from when I leveled my own DK, and even now, as a healer, I still don't get it. Especially considering this specific case involved a Fury Warrior, who actually saw benefits at taking aggro from the DK during heavy AoE thanks to more rage. I just don't see the issue.

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Publication par apocalypsa

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Publication par Trishi

Then youre lucky. I and my healer friend have been called out for being top dps above the 3 real dpsers, because according to them "our job is to tank and heal, not to dps". After which they votekicked both of us just before last boss.

Of course I've also met a lot of great people, but you only remember the bad things...

Oh this, so horribly much... Thankfully, I usually run with 2 of my guildees, so most of the time when a vote-kick against me have been initiated when I smiteheal on my priest, it fails. Kinda off-topic, but since this is always in combination with DK tanks who gets flamed, it might as well be because the dps are just sore losers who feel bad about not being able to play a DK tank as well as their current group mate, and losing to a healer in dps sent them off.

Of course, doing 500 to 600 dps in BC dungeons as a healer might just be a bit too much...

Publication par Sujezz

I love the DeathKnight class. On Stormscale, deathknights are loved and respected, just like any toher class.

FUN FACT: Most poeple who ridiculed Deathknights were people who wanted WotLK but could not have it.

And seriously? I've played 5 deathknights, and none of them was blood-specced. Frost and unholy FTW!

Maybe you should give it a try ? Even tho I love frost (dw and 2h are both fun to play) I hate unholy, and after giving a try to blood (around 66 lvl back in wotlk) I'm blood ever since.

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Publication par Loetek

Publication par Trishi

Back in 3.3.3 (I think that was the patch... the one where they changed blood to the only tank spec) I had just started my DK. After leveling him Blood for a few levels and tanking a few instances along with reading these fantastic forums on diseaseless tanking :D

Anyway

I got into this outlands group ( before the first DK nerf after the patch), the druid healer immediately started flaming on me for no other reason than being a fail DK. This was before I had even pulled anything. I didnt respond to the moron and instead just went to pulling and playing. It wasnt until I was about the 3rd pull in that I realized he wasnt even healing me... it was a ret pally spot healing me when I was getting bursted really bad. after I said something (pleaded with him to stop being a douch) he then started pulling mobs and dieing to try and wipe us... we kicked him obviously.

But that was the 1st time I seen something like that happening.

2nd was when i got to northrend on my ret pally. Another drood healer started raging at the Blood DK tank (His spec and presence was all correct) as soon as we got into the instance because he was duel wielding. Now granted he shouldnt be duel wielding... but it was a level 70s instance and his weapons where both outlands epic raid (he was all purples) weapons. And he hadnt found anything to upgrade with. This driud did the same &*!@. Just refussed to heal. But we couldnt kick for whatever reason... had to wait 15 minutes...

Sorry for the rant but it was frustrating

Blood wasn't changed to the only tank spec before patch 4.0, AKA pre-launch Cata.

Sadly, a lot of healers use their power over the group to stop them from proceeding. Any group, regardless of the setup, will inevitably need a healer. It is too easy to replace a tank with a dps in normal dungeons, especially while leveling, till about 75 dungeons. On the other hand, replacing a healer is tough. Well geared caster Shaman/Druids/Priests can heal even without a dual spec, but it takes more effort, and more often than not, you will find yourself as the only caster in the group. This leads to the healer being more or less the "God" of the group. If the healer stops, the rest of the group has to follow lead, or risk a wipe.

DKs doesn't have that issue as of Cataclysm. Death Strike and their other insane healing capabilities can outheal quite a few instances, even if this requires more careful planning, use of CCs, and CDs. It's a freedom the other tanks doesn't have, which makes it appear like DKs die faster, when they actually don't. Their life drops faster, but the self-healing they can do makes up for it. Healers just doesn't look at it this way, and I understand why, being a main healer. As a healer, you always prefer a tank that losses life in a slow, predictable manner. If the tank drops rapidly, and the damage comes in odd spikes, it becomes stressful to heal. This is why Paladins and Warriors are the prefered tanks for most guilds.

This difference is also the reason a lot of people look down on DK tanks. The main, however, is most clearly the fact that DKs are regarded as noobs by a lot of players, even to this day.

Publication par Aris

Now that theirs a new expansion, most of the noob DK's have moved onto playing worgon and goblins. There have been, and always will be, bandwagon players who poorly play whatever is new and shiny. DK's are last expansion. So these people arn't playing them as much.

Also i think the fact that most end game raiding guilds consider DK's to be one of the best tanking classes in the game right now adds to the good rep for the class.

Lately i've found that people are happy to learn there is going to be a DK tanking something for them. Now sure, if you end up sucking at it they will hate you, but you can say that of someone playing any class poorly.

I don't think that stigma is attatched to the class itself anymore.

Publication par Trishi

I don't think that stigma is attatched to the class itself anymore.

It still is. When people say "Omg, not another DK", they cut it out as clear as humanly possible. Has it been reduced since the new expansion? Perhaps. The thing with guilds is another matter. People in guilds are usually better to accept other people, and see what they are capable of before judging them good or bad.

While leveling, I found myself and by soulmate frowning whenever we encountered a...

1. Hunter
2. Ret Paladin
3. Mage

In that order. Especially hunters... oh how I dread them, and not just while leveling. Ninjapulling and wiping parties all the time.

I'm kidding, of course, but it happens, and it automatically attaches a bad stigma to the class itself. Is it justified? No. It never is. You could have met 500 Hunters who all sucked, and it would still be unfair to label the class "A bunch of noobs". Anecdotal evidence is poor evidence at best, and with more than tens of thousands of players of each class, it is highly unlikely that 1 class attracts all the poor players.

The issue is as you said with the expansion. It's the same reason why Blood elves were frowned upon. New stuff attracts different kinds of players. Mostly, people will stick to their roots, where the more unstable kind will jump at anything that is new. Sadly, most of the younger audience tends to flock to the new and shiny stuff, which leads to the unfortunate stigma DKs have gathered.

I'm sort of a alt-o-holic, so I understand why people want to try out new stuff. My tendency to read up heavily on my class before I even create it, is just me. People tend to expect you to know your class, and understand the mechanics that make up WoW. The higher the level, the higher the expectations. The issue pops up when the Death Knight finally gets access to Azeroth, is at level 58, and signs up as a tank in the dungeon finder. The person in question have little experience with the class, and the rest of the group, having stuck to their character for almost 60 levels, find it ridiculous how bad the Death Knight is.

It's getting better, but bad memories tend to stick better than good ones.

Publication par Aris

Publication par Trishi

The problem with hunters, is they have THE BEST CC in the game, they get a pet, they do great ranged dps, AND blizz has continuously made them easier and easier to play, and yet 99% of the people who play hunters continue to suck at it.

Hunters are one of those classes everyone wants to love, but hates because so many people butcher it's potential so hard. Good hunters are like diamonds in the ruff, but when you find them you want to keep them forever.

This is especially ridiculous when you see a Marksman hunter in a Heroic dungeon, pulling about 10k single target, and his top four is:

1. Arcane Shot
2. Auto Shot
3. Wild Quiver
4. Steady Shot

Chimera shot? Not on the list. Aimed shot? Not on the list. I can't imagine how boring playing like that would be.

Publication par apocalypsa

Publication par 138583

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Publication par Trishi

Thats sounds doubtful to me, especially because arcane shot is only used on movement fights...

Also, whatever people say, hunter certainly isnt easy to play.

Why do you think we found it ridiculous?

The most stupid thing about it, is how their autoshot+wild quiver is such a huge chunk of their total damage done. Most MM hunters seem to be sitting at about 40 % of their total damage done, solely from auto-shot+wildquiver. I mean, really? I'm not saying hunters are easy to play, but the damage I've seen them dish out, compared to what their damage done list tells me, hunters seem to be allowed far more mistakes than any other class I can think of. It may take insane skill to really top the charts, but that doesn't mean they aren't easy to play.

Publication par apocalypsa

Zakkhar, MMS doesnt use cobra.

And Trishi, the point I was trying to get across is that hunters arent a lot easier than all other classes. Maybe they arent super hard, but nowhere as easy as wotlk ret paladins.

Also, there are a ton of other classes with a large amount of their damage in autoattacks. Enh shamans and rogues come to mind.

Do Dk's still get ridiculed purely for playing their class?

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