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Varian Thread
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Post by
hymer
Varian wants Stormwind safe. Alexstrasza wants all life to... well, live. Obviously, these two goals are not easily brought together, they are in fact in direct conflict at the very least in the short term.
Thus, Varian is not supposed to do what Alexstrasza does, nor think the way she thinks, nor value what she values.
I'm not saying he is ultimately right, or that she is ultimately wrong. But that their character, their purpose, and their points of view are vastly different.
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229054
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451455
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Post by
Adamsm
Next, Doomhammer and the orcish race are NOT the same thing, and you have no right asuming it. According to the Warcraft 2 BtDP manuel, VARIAN SUPPORTED Terenas' Interment camp idea. Doomhammer is the Hitler of WoW behind the second war. I know you dont want to hear it, but Blackmoore and Doomhammer are the same to me. Sorry.
Next, learn your lore for gods sake, The horde was not under the burning legion's influence in the second, and end of first war, read the Tides of Darkness, DOOMHAMMER, THRALL'S IDOL, LEAD THE ATTACK ON STORMWIND, AND STARTED THE SECOND WAR... TO 'ESCAPE' TO BLOODLUST!
Okay first off Darkton, no. Doomhammer is not a Hitler, not even close. Doomhammer killed the Shadow council and Blackhand to stop the corruption of the Orc's, and then he took over and did the best he could with what he had. Yes, he continued the war, but only because he wanted to create a new homeland for the orcs. In all honesty, he should have killed both Gul'dan and Cho'gall as well when he took out the other Shadow Council members, that he didn't was a massive oversight.
You also talk about knowing your lore? The Blood Curse was still on them, Gul'dan was still around so yes, the Legion was still in partial command of the Horde. Your forgetting the big thing here Darkton, Medivh was possessed by Sargeras when he opened the Portal for the Orc's to come through. So yeah, the Legion still had a lot to do with them.
Following his defeat at Blackrock mountain, Doomhammer was captured and escaped, he then went into hiding for almost 15 years, traveling the world, learning things. He eventually met up with Thrall and with the help of the young shaman, helped to start rebuild the Horde into what it is now, a force of Good. Doomhammer died a good death, some of his past sins dealt with.
Thrall is the Warchief of the whole green-staged orcs, so it would make sense to confuse Garona for them... but what you fail to see angers me, so i will bold it again. VARIAN WANTS GARONA DEAD FOR KILLING HIS DAD, WHICH IS UNDERSTANABLE EVEN IF GARONA IS NOT SANE. VARIAN WANTS HER DEAD FOR REGICIED. LOOK IT UP. "THE DEVIL MADE ME DO IT" IS A TERRIBLE EXCUSE. As for that, again, Garona had no control over herself, the crap she went through for her entire life makes Varian, Thrall and even Sylvanas look like nothing. She is a child of rape, had so many spells placed onto her to make her a mallable killing machine that has no choice but to do as she is ordered. In her case, the Devil Made Me Do It works, as Gul'dan and Cho'gall are devils, and have served Demonic Masters, Sargeras/Kil'jaeden in the case of Gul'dan, and the Old God C'thun in the case of Cho'gall. Seriously, she is a tragic figure, forced to kill when she didn't want to.
THE ALLIANCE DID NOT TRUN AWAY THE FORSAKEN!
THE FORSAKEN HATE ALL HUMANS AND DENY THEM THE RIGHT TO LIVE!
THEY CAPTURED HUMANS AND TROURTERED THEM, UNLIKE THE DEATH KNIGHTS WHO SENT A PEACE ENVOY!
AND HOW DARE YOU BLAME HIM FOR NOT TRUSTING THE ORCS WHEN EVERYTIME HE DOES, HE ALMOST LOSES HIS LIFE!
THE FORSAKEN ARE EVILLLLLLLLLLL.
EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLL! As for that, you realize everything your saying there is reversed for the Forsaken right? The Scarlets want to kill them and deny the Undead the right to live.
As for the Varian thing, it's not the Horde trying to kill him, it's the other Evil power's at play who almost kill him.
Think before you post, and Do Not Make another Post like this, I don't mind if you defend your views, but do not do Bold And Caps understood?
Post by
229054
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Post by
Adamsm
Actually. Many npcs and quests show that the
Draenei
hold no grudges against the New Horde. For them now that the orcs from the past were corrupted, and that the New Horde isn't anymore than any other race (except for the Draenei themselves =p). Fix'd.
And Edit: Actually Northwatch is indeed from Theramore. But i don't think that the Horde army was involved here. It was more like mercenary work for a npc from ratchet. He's right in this case, the North Watch hold people are the last remaining members of Admiral Proudmoore's fleet, so it is Kul Tiras men, Jaina sent them there so they wouldn't cause trouble in city.... except for the renegades that is who currently talk everyone's ears off.
Post by
Skreeran
First off, we have been through the Med'an talk before, you turned Varians words around, MED"AN ATTACKED HIM!
As much as you hate him, he is not going to stand there and die. He gave Med'an to the undead lady is all, and its Garona's fault for bringing family into this, and Med'an's fault for even showing up. If Varian was going to kill Med'an, he could have. He did not. Remember this and let it go... still, this is why i love Varian, he seems so real. If i was him, i would not give a DAMN what befalls Garona's family, after all she did to his (remember the word Regicied). so yeah. Varian ftw.Med'an is a child, Varian said it himself. If a teenager gets in my way, it is not right to kill him, whoever he is or whatever he did.
And I don't hate Varian. I hate that he probably wants me dead.
Next, stop using the word "Genocide", it a load of bull. You ask to much of Varian You want him to do whats best for his people, then you attack for him declaring war. Its about high-time someone tells those Horde punks not to mess with us. This is like telling a teenager "they can do the crime, but NOT pay the time"
If the Horde wants a fight, they got one. Varian wants it "disbanded" by defeating its leaders, and ending the threat they pose. Telling Varian not to do this is like telling Thrall not to stop Admiral Proudmoore, a event you guys can relate to.Varian wants Thrall dead. Varian probably wants me dead as well. I'm fairly certain he would hardly hesitate to resort to genocide, should the opportunity come up. Let's list his "symptoms":
1. He hates the orcs invariably. There's nothing but his own moral fiber stopping him from making that call, should he get the chance, and even that is wearing thin.
2. He dehumanizes the orcs every chance he gets. Just as the Nazis did to the jews, or Cortes did to the Aztecs. That effectively bypasses the moral part. They're not people, they're mad beasts that much be put down.
3. He's shown hardly any sign of actually wanting peace with the Horde. Even the two meets he did go to, he had to be convinced by his son and Jaina to go to.
Next, Doomhammer and the orcish race are NOT the same thing, and you have no right asuming it. According to the Warcraft 2 BtDP manuel, VARIAN SUPPORTED Terenas' Interment camp idea. Doomhammer is the Hitler of WoW behind the second war. I know you dont want to hear it, but Blackmoore and Doomhammer are the same to me. Sorry.Just read the manual. It doesn't say that Varian supported it. All it says is that Trollbane and Greymane opposed it. Besides, that manual's old. It says Deathwing is second in power to Alexstrasza as well. I'll be reading the book soon, but if you don't have a quote from there, I'll continue to believe that Varian's attitude extended byeond Orgrim alone.
And seriously... Blackmoore is scum. One of the absolute worst individuals the human race ever had to offer.
Orgrim at least cared for his own people. Orgrim also understood honor and respect.
And for the last time concerning Justin Bartlett, he is fighting back against Blackscar(reference to Blackhand?), who just attacked him, and said "THIS IS WHAT IT MEANS TO BE HORDE!" I for one, like Justin. Lets teach the Horde not to screw with us! Thats it for Skreeran, I think.Justin wants genocide. He doesn't even hide it.
Time and again, the Horde have demonstrated their disdain for everything we hold dear and holy. They must pay with their lives for their transgressions against the light.
All of them.
Just imagine a world free of their stain, <name>. Envision the joy our children will know. Think of the reverence your descendants will have for your memory, knowing they owe their happiness to you.That right there, is the exact definition of genocide. No matter who died at the Broken Front, his quarrel lies with Korm and Garrosh, not the entire race, many of whom are innocent.
THE ALLIANCE DID NOT TRUN AWAY THE FORSAKEN!
THE FORSAKEN HATE ALL HUMANS AND DENY THEM THE RIGHT TO LIVE!
THEY CAPTURED HUMANS AND TROURTERED THEM, UNLIKE THE DEATH KNIGHTS WHO SENT A PEACE ENVOY!
AND HOW DARE YOU BLAME HIM FOR NOT TRUSTING THE ORCS WHEN EVERYTIME HE DOES, HE ALMOST LOSES HIS LIFE!
THE FORSAKEN ARE EVILLLLLLLLLLL.
EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLL!The humans (the scarle crusade, specifically) started the hating.
Death Knights kill Cenarion Circle druids for training. They're hardly better.
If he trusts Tirion enough to let former Scourge into the Alliance, he should at least trust Tirion enough to try to work things out with the Horde. If he's afraid of being attacked, he could meet in somewhere secure, like the Argent Tournament or Dalaran or frickin Shattrath... (A'dal can 1shot the Fel Reaver, remember? :P). Or he could just send an emissary.
He doesn't need to jump straight to war.
Post by
229054
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Post by
451455
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Post by
Adamsm
Read more quests then the Sha'tar Draenei, like the Azureimist ones. They hate orcs.
There are no orc mobs anywhere on Azuremyst or Bloodmyst. I have leveled 6 toons there, no where do they say "Hey you know what I hate? The orc's man, they suck." Unless you can find concrete evidence to prove that the Draenei haven't forgiven the orcs, dont say stuff like that. Again, the whole Army of Light thing that the Naaru and the Draenei are working on, more then likely the Orcs, Blood Elves, Trolls, and Taurens will end up a part of it (I leave the Forsaken out mainly because... well they're not big fan of the Light). The Draenei are saddened by the events that occured on Draenor all those years ago, but they don't see a point in continuing the fight with the New Orc's, as they had nothing to do with that old conflict.
Be nice if Varian could learn more from the Draenei, maybe they should do a "Royal Exchange" program and swap Velen for him for a few months.
Post by
451455
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Post by
229054
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Post by
Adamsm
Listen to what he says. "Peace? Useless, its gotten us no where."
Now THATS a leader.No, that isnt.
Post by
325248
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Post by
451455
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451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Dreanei= They still hate them. Accordin to Wowwiki, they have Orc hunting partys... as do they night elvesWhoa, what? Dude, now your pulling crap out of your arse. They have no such thing.
Post by
Dralas
Holy long thread page batman!
Post by
Skreeran
med'an is older then you looks, child is a insult.How do you know? Prove to me that Varian meant anything other than what he said.
Varian is not like that, he has tried time in, and time again to offer peace with the horde. All that gets him is more trouble. Seriuosly guys, two chances is ok, but twenty? And he wont send a essessimary because it risks his life. Varian does not want to lose anyone more to "peace".Then next time he can meet with Thrall one on one in Shattrath, or with Tirion, or at Wyrmrest, or in Dalaran... That's safe.
Read it AGAINYou read it again.
After months of debate and frustration, both leaders withdrew the support of their nations from the Alliance. Azeroth alone stood fast in its commitment to the Alliance. Even with the dynamic young Varien Wrynn seated upon Azeroth's throne, the distance between the kingdoms of Azeroth and Lordaeron made their union a hollow one.It says nothing about Varian's stance on the orcs internment. All it says is tha Varian was king of Azeroth, and Azeroth did not withdraw from the Alliance.
You keep on saying from him to blame Krom, or Garrosh, or Sylvanas... he does not know how the Horde works, they are responsible for what ever ANY member does. And its not the entire race, and stop saying "Genocide"
King Varian Wrynn says: I have seen the Horde's world. I have been inside their cities. Inside their minds...
King Varian Wrynn says: I know what evil lies in the hearts of orcs.He seems to be pretty confident that he knows how the Horde works. He needs to talk to Thrall about it, rather than jumping right into war.
And if you're talking about Justin, yes, he wants genocide. That is the correct word for what he wants.
gen⋅o⋅cide
/ˈdʒɛnəˌsaɪd/
–noun
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.
Time and again, the Horde have demonstrated their disdain for everything we hold dear and holy.
They must pay with their lives for their transgressions against the light.
All of them.
Just imagine a world free of their stain, <name>.
Envision the joy our children will know. Think of the reverence your descendants will have for your memory, knowing they owe their happiness to you.
Sylvanas admits when you destroy Garithos' base(she does not even know who he is yet) that the death of humans makes her happy. If the Forsaken wanted to be at peace, we would be. Stop throwing the Scarlet crusade out here, i cant be caught dead bringing up Horde and demon control.It's true. The Forsaken hate humans because the humans hate them. The Forsaken attack humans because the humans attacked them.
Listen to what he says. "Peace? Useless, its gotten us no where."
Now THATS a leader.
"I can only pray to the ancestors that I am never placed in the same position as my father—torn between what I know in my heart is right and the defense of my people. It is why I continue to strive to uphold the tenuous peace between us and the Alliance. Because few offenses and insults in this or any other world are sufficient to warrant the slaughter of children."Now THAT'S a leader.
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451455
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