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Varian Thread
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Post by
Patty
I don't like his speeches...simply because they are an exact Copy + Paste with "Alliance, Horde, Burning Legion, demons" Stuck in it to make it in WoW's context.
I know Blizzard like refererencing things, but that's plain copying.
Post by
46491
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Post by
Skreeran
You're saying that Garithos was racist enough to want Kael'thas dead for being an elf, but not Sylvanas, even though she was an
undead
elf.
That just seems silly to me.
Inductive reasoning tells us that if he wanted Kael'thas dead, he would most certainly have wanted Sylvanas dead, and you are not going to convince me otherwise without a long and expansive argument explaining what could have possibly driven him to hate Kael'thas more than Sylvanas
Post by
229054
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Post by
taurenmoo812
"Hold your ground! Hold your ground! Sons of the Alliance! Of the Horde! My brothers and sisters! I see in your eyes the same fear that would wither my own heart. A day may come when our courage fails, when we forsake our friends and break our fellowships... but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear in these good lands, I bid you stand, heroes of Azeroth!" (inspired by aragorn's speech in lord of the rings, but adapted into wow)
Actully thats a directly modified version of Aragons speech at the black gates in lord of the rings, but there you go..
so he can make acusations against us without proof, but he doesn't like it when we do the same?
pff, what a hipocrit piece of crap.
Yep, its delusional self righteousness, on a level with something the scarlet crusade would do.
Post by
46491
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Post by
Adamsm
Another example: Varian has been taken to task about not knowing that Garona was a pawn of the Shadow Council since way back. The only ones who knew the truth about her were the Shadow Council themselves and Doomhammer, and judging by what I've seen of Thrall's reaction in the comics, Doomhammer - his own friend and mentor - didn't even let him know about her. And yet Varian is supposed to know?He does and he doesn't know..... he refused to listen to Med'an, Jaina and Agewynn who told him, several times, that she was being mind controlled when Garona attacked at the Theramore summit. It wasn't until Maarad showed up that they all learned that the death of Llane was due to the mind control from the Shadow Council, that she had been a puppet from birth. Of course, Varian took off after ordering them to lock up Garona, and as soon as Med'an was back, to send the half-orc/half-draenei to Stormwind to be killed. Luckly, that hasn't happened, and it won't as Garona is a prisoner of Theramore, which doesn't answer to Stormwind.
Post by
451455
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Post by
Adamsm
The Burning Crusade
Nope, there was a mini game where you fight each other in every area.He was talking about the reopening of the Portal event, where the Argent Dawn members of both factions called on the Horde and the Alliance to help them beat back the demon invasion.......
You will need to enlighten me on this, I have not read the triligoy. Any thing labeling the blood elfs and Forsaken as good guys back then belongs in the trash.Sylvanas helped to save Anveena, who was the embodiment of the sunwell. She also assisted the Blood Elves to help rebuild their lands. And seeing as during the Shattered Sun Offensive, where the Scryers, Aldors and Shat'tari worked together, with the Horde and the Alliance to fight back against Kael'thas, Kil'jaeden and the Legion. Velen and M'uru helped to reignite the Sunwell.... and considering what Kael's blood elves did to the Draenei, the fact that their willingly to help is something everyone on Azeroth could learn from.
The Argent Crusade
All members where hand-picked by Tirion; not aloud to join freelyYeah, and they have Forsaken, Blood Elves, High Elves, Humans, Dwarves, Orcs, Taurens, and all the other races working together, including members of the Scarlet Crusade/Onslaught who saw the Light about their groups.
The Cenarion Circle
Not a "major war", this is just a group of druids.Your kidding right? The War of the Shifting Sands, War of the Ancients.... the Circle has been around for thousands of years, a combined group of Tauren and Night Elves..... look stuff up before you say stuff like that Dark.
The Earthen Ring
No a "major war", this is just a group of shaman.Orcs and Draenei working together to keep the elementals that want to destroy the world...... you don't consider that a war? Again, look stuff up before you say something Dark.
Post by
229054
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Post by
451455
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Post by
Adamsm
Argent Dawn had a role in TBC?
And stop thorughing neutral fractions at me, they could have nothing to do with the Horde or the Alliance.
Read what I said above.
This was long before the Alliance or Horde existed, so I don't see how it proves they can work togther...
Read what I said about neutral fractions
Go and read, and you'd realize the big thing all of those have in common..... There Horde and Alliance working together, again and again to stop some major threat. So, the idea of yours, in believing that Varian sees any Horde and Alliance working together means people die.... consider the alternative; had we not stopped the portal invasion.... Legion eats the World. War of the Shifting Sand...... C'thun and the Quarj and the Silithids eat the world. Elemental Lords taking over Outland.... dead Horde and Alliance, might even end up on Azeroth. The Sunwell, Kil'jaeden on Azeroth.... don't need to say it again do I?
So......... there is multiple proof that the Horde and the Alliance can work together, they stop the grand threats and they do it without stabbing each other in the back.... I think Varian needs to retake Azeroth history.
Post by
451455
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Post by
Skreeran
Varian wants the Horde dead.This makes no senceOf course it does. He wants the people in the Horde to die or live in a prison camp for the rest of their lives.
Garrosh wants the Alliance dead.Nor does thisOf course it does. Garrosh wants everyone in the Alliance dead.
Sylvanas wants Humans dead.So you admit it now?Never really denied it, as far as I know.
Of course, every human she's encountered as a Forsaken has wanted her dead.
Garithos wanted all non-humans dead.Garithos is deadYes. And he wanted all non-humans dead. The statement is correct.
Do you see how they are similar?You look at this to one-dimesionaly.Not really. Dead is dead, and they all want good people dead.
Varian hates orcs, but trys.HA!
When has he ever tried?
The only things I remember is his son and Jaina nagging him into meeting with the Horde. And then there's him telling me that he thinks I'm a savage, a dog, a pig, filth, a green-skinned aberration, and that he's going to remove me from this world.
He hates me just as much as Sylvanas hates humans.
Unfortenalntly for him to be justified in his waryness in the eyes of Horde players, he needs to go to the moon and look under all rocks. Seriously, how is he supposed to know who was behind everything? Only a fool would trust a former enemy's word. BUT its like you said Patty, Sylvanas hates all humans, and if Varian was wrong to declare war, your the real hypocrite here.Varian was wrong to declare war.
1. This is absolutely the worst time for war. We're already fighting on three fronts with the forces of Yogg-saron, the Lich King, and the Blue Dragonflight. Imagine how much worse Borean Tundra would be if Valiance Keep and Warsong Hold were fighting eachother instead of the Scourge? They'd both be destroyed and the campaign would be finished then and there. How about the Broken Front? That was in response to the declaration of war, and look how that went. Not defending the Horde there, just saying, this isn't a good time to be fighting eachother.
2. This war will kill even more people than were dying before. You keep saying he's going to be defensive, but that's not what he said. He wants to disband the Horde (whether by killing them, imprisoning them, or some third option), and that will take resources, innocent lives, and focus off of the real threats.
Sylvanas, for starters, is part of the high elven race which owes its existence to humanity.Sylvanas is part of the Forsaken race that humanity works tirelessly to destroy.
Varian is part of the human race, which was attempted to be put extinct by the orcish race.
See the difference so far?Seems the same to me. Except that the orcs aren't trying to drive the humans to extinction anymore.
Varian is from Stormwind, the same city that was burned to the ground by the orcs.
Sylvanas is from Quel'Thalas, the place which, according to the RoC manuel, would have been destroyed if not for Lordaeron enforcements.Sylvanas is undead, and she is loyal to her fellow Forsaken, who are in the process of systematically being exterminated by the Scarlet Crusade.
Get the picture now?Still seem pretty similar
Varian's life was destroyed by the orc Doomhammer, who is a revered hero in the Horde's lines. Thrall wears his armor all the time, and Varian would have seen it when Doomhammer was imprisoned.
Sylvanas' life was destroyed because of the same human prince whom she was well awhere destroyed Lordaeron before coming to Quel'Thalas.
Huge difference.No, they still seem pretty similar to me.
If not for a human, Sylvanas would never have Undercity in the first place.A human that was only working for his own gain and would have had her killed in a moment.
There is also the fact that her sisters are married to humans.
Sylvanas can not compare to Varian, simple as that.sure he can. They both had their lives ruined by members of another race, and consistantly find themselves threatened by members of the same race.
Except the Varian's are simply perceived, Sylvanas' are real.
And seriously, if you are saying Sylvanas is right, then you are blindly going against it.I'm not saying Sylvanas is right. I'm saying Varian is wrong. Understand now?
Wanting to wipe out another rce is wrong. Period.
The Burning CrusadeNope, there was a mini game where you fight each other in every area.Not at the Portal, which was the most important battle. And it was hardly a war, both sides worked together several times without there being any sort of disaster that you claim happens every time.
You will need to enlighten me on this, I have not read the triligoy. Any thing labeling the blood elfs and Forsaken as good guys back then belongs in the trash.Not talking about the Manga. Both sides worked to repel Kil'jaeden. Even the Aldor and the Scryers got along for that.
All members where hand-picked by Tirion; not aloud to join freelyThat's odd. I joined up pretty easily. How about the Argent Dawn, then? No one hand picked them.
Not a "major war", this is just a group of druids/shaman.Major War? It's the Alliance and Horde working together without any sort of disaster or betrayal.
But wait! I thought that was impossible!
Post by
Skreeran
Uhh, I need to remember to switch from Varian's POV to Someone-with-Wowwiki info's POV.
Sorry about that.
The point
is
, Varian can't fight beside the Horde if he keeps on losing lifes of commrades.Varian is a king. He should at least know of these events.
If he doesn't, then he is uninformed and incapable of informed judgement.
Q.E.D.
Post by
Adamsm
The point is, Varian can't fight beside the Horde if he keeps on losing lifes of commrades.
But if he doesn't work beside the Horde, the loss of life would be much higher, as some threats can't be faced with just one faction; you need them both.
And like Skreeran said.... War is going to end up with people dying, but if you fight with allys, you cut down on the needless deaths.
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229054
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46491
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229054
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451455
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