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The Official Wowhead Book-Club
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Post by
Fathios
Game of Thrones on HBO in 18 days!
:D
Biggest worry right now is that I hope they doesn't make this like Spartacus: Blood and Sand, which was pretty much a softcore porno almost . . .
Considering the least @#$%ed-up relationship in the series is between incestuous twins, and it also includes such loveliness as a dwarf and his ^&*!@, or a forcibly-married 13-year old to a massive barbarian guy, I don't think they have many "sexy" options, lol. Although knowing HBO they'll try to squeeze in something with Eddard and Catelyn in the first few episodes.
I can't wait though. I'm so happy that they got a great actor for Tyrion, he's my favorite character. Sean Bean as Eddard is gonna be incredible too.
I've been re-reading A Game of Thrones in preperation, and the third or fourth chapter is a sex scene with Eddard and Catelyn, soooo . . .
Well that'll probably be in just the first episode before...well...%^&* gets real. And part of me can't see Sean Bean doing a sex scene, for some reason. He seems too classy.
Post by
Monday
Just got Watchmen <3
Post by
Fathios
Just got Watchmen <3
My favorite written work of all time. Have fun reading it, and pay attention to every detail.
Post by
OverZealous
Just got Watchmen <3
That's a good one!
Post by
Monday
So I'm about halfway through, and so far I've decided:
Dr. Manhattan is a lameass.
Nite Owl is annoying.
Jupiter is REALLY annoying.
Ozymandias is alright.
The Comedian, even though I didn't like him, was interesting.
Rorschach is amazing.
Post by
chaosultimamage
To the Pullman issue:
First some quotes from Pullman himself:
"I'm trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief."
"My books are about killing God."
"I am all for the death of God."
The book itself contains a Calvinized Catholic Church. Whether that can be called a jibe at Catholicism itself is questionable. The book very clearly and definitely mentions Christianity and very much points at a condemnation. What is clear is that the books are very much both atheistic in nature and anti- organized religion.
I certainly don't argue that Pullman is Atheist or that he has said any of those things, but I still stand that the book itself is not so blatantly anti-religious above all else that it would put someone off from reading it. The book simply doesn't at any point acknowledge or hint that there is / are omniscient deity/deities. That's really the extent of it. The existence of a Catholic church in the world and their teaching being wrong in a fiction book still doesn't account for much. I mean, what fantasy books really do acknowledge the Christian God (unless you want to count the Bible)? I've really gotta remember to get the ebooks so I can re-read them, it's definitely been awhile.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I certainly don't argue that Pullman is Atheist or that he has said any of those things, but I still stand that the book itself is not so blatantly anti-religious above all else that it would put someone off from reading it. The book simply doesn't at any point acknowledge or hint that there is / are omniscient deity/deities. That's really the extent of it. The existence of a Catholic church in the world and their teaching being wrong in a fiction book still doesn't account for much. I mean, what fantasy books really do acknowledge the Christian God (unless you want to count the Bible)? I've really gotta remember to get the ebooks so I can re-read them, it's definitely been awhile.
The entire books is premised on the faults of "Christianity" (that is, Christianity as portrayed in the book).
"I'm trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief."
Are you going to deny a meaning he intentionally put into the books?
The book simply doesn't at any point acknowledge or hint that there is / are omniscient deity/deities.
Uh...you seriously need to re-read the books if you think that's the extent of the religious discussion in the book.
Post by
chaosultimamage
The entire books is premised on the faults of "Christianity" (that is, Christianity as portrayed in the book).
"I'm trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief."
Are you going to deny a meaning he intentionally put into the books?
I'm speaking purely of the subject matter and the quotes of characters in the books. I could care less what Pullman wanted it to be. From my memory of the books, which is still fairly vivid, he did a poor job of making it completely about religion. I didn't get that vibe at all. I still say people are just easily offended and read too much into stuff.
Post by
Monday
Besides at the end they go to what is basically Christian heaven in a setting where the Church is real and kill God?
Post by
chaosultimamage
Besides at the end they go to what is basically Christian heaven in a setting where the Church is real and kill God?
At the end of what? The entire trilogy? I seem to recall them getting back to one of the worlds and kissing or something being the ending of the last book...
Post by
Monday
Besides at the end they go to what is basically Christian heaven in a setting where the Church is real and kill God?
At the end of what? The entire trilogy? I seem to recall them getting back to one of the worlds and kissing or something being the ending of the last book...
Yes. At the end of the entire trilogy (iirc) somebody kills God. It was slightly before the actual ending. I'm thinking it was the climax.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I'm speaking purely of the subject matter and the quotes of characters in the books. I could care less what Pullman wanted it to be. From my memory of the books, which is still fairly vivid, he did a poor job of making it completely about religion. I didn't get that vibe at all. I still say people are just easily offended and read too much into stuff.
Wait, so even though the author stated that it was his intention, and the vast majority of critics who have read the books see it, you're claiming that it's not true?
I honestly don't care how
you
read the book. I care about what's in the book, and what's in the book is a clear push against 1) organized religion, 2) Christianity, and 3) God.
Post by
chaosultimamage
I will have to apologize at least a little. Apparently my memory of the books are completely ^&*!ed because of the movie. I downloaded the ebooks and ,in The Golden Compass alone, the Church is referenced at least a dozen times and probably closer to 40 or 50 times.
I will also state that, perhaps, my own opinions regarding religion as a whole prevent me from seeing this the same way.
However, I would still say the book is worth a read, regardless, as it is a good fiction book with interesting concepts.
Post by
Monday
I don't deny that it is a pretty good book, I enjoyed it when I first read it, but it is definitely anti-Catholic/Christian. If you can't stand that stuff, don't read it.
Otherwise, go read it. It's pretty good.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
This
was an insanely well written book, yet it is one the most anti-Catholic books in existence.
Post by
Monday
So, I finished Watchmen, and frankly I was a little disappointed at Rorschach's ending )=
Post by
Pwntiff
Eh, he's the epitome of an anti-hero.
Post by
Orranis
I think it was brilliant. I literally cannot overstate how much I love that comic. The hero was the insane twisted and abused, and the villain but not actually was the publicly adored lovable warm hero, who was only doing not what even thought was right, but necessary. I think the death of Rorschach was completely necessary, think about how much it would've undermined all three characters (Ozzy, Manhattan and Rorschach) if they'd just let him go. My personal greatest disappointment is that we're never going to see what happens after the journal is published (fan fic idea much?)
Post by
Monday
I know. I just... I don't know. I'm not sure if I liked the way he died. Dr. Manhattan laserbeaming him was just kinda meh to me. Otherwise, I highly enjoyed it. Ozymandias is now my favorite villain, ever.
Post by
Orranis
Well, how would you have killed him? (Or preferred him killed, or none of the above)? It showed that neither side compromised in their ideals. Rorschach didn't back down even though he saw it was between preventing the apocalypse or giving the people the truth, and he chose the latter. Dr. Manhattan (and I think it's wrong to assume he was completely on Veidt's side, because he knew it wouldn't last forever, but understood that Veidt's sacrifice of others must not have been made in vain by Rorschach) and kills him.
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