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The Garrosh Thread
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Post by
GVHB
The pact between the Alliance and the Grimtotems is an alliance of convenience. The Alliance help the Taurens defend their village from attack from the Horde and they give the Alliance forces passage into the Barrens. It work pass beyond that, they should have agreed to let the Grimtotems keep Stonetalon for themselves after all the conflict was over and the Alliance had won.
Seeing how low in numbers the Grimtotems were, not accepting the help of the Alliance would have been stupid.
Post by
FarseerLolotea
Considering what he's up against... he's doing fine; I'm just waiting for him to take her head like he broke the neck then tossed the commander who bombed the village in Stonetalon off a cliff. If it comes down simply to 'Garrosh is good' 'Sylvanas is evil' the expansion works for me heh; and I know you'll add in the 'But Garrosh insulted the female wolves in Durotar' segue here... I don't see it like that; it's about time someone called her on her actions.I wasn't even going to
say
anything about Garrosh insulting every she-wolf in Durotar
(although he did)
. From what we've seen so far, he snaps at her, then just lets her do her thing. And she seems to be flouting his directives all over the place.
...if she gets deposed in favor of Voss or someone, I'm gonna cheer.
Magtha is how the poison was getting to Cairne, so there's your major destabilizing point, the death of the current leader; and the Grimtotems are nothing like the Kurenai: we're doing one quest chain to convince them the enemy of my enemy is my friend and that's it; your not going to see the black furred tauren anywhere else in Alliance lands.Among other things, the Kurenai aren't finks. They may be angry and paranoid, but they're
direct
.
Post by
Adamsm
Considering what he's up against... he's doing fine; I'm just waiting for him to take her head like he broke the neck then tossed the commander who bombed the village in Stonetalon off a cliff. If it comes down simply to 'Garrosh is good' 'Sylvanas is evil' the expansion works for me heh; and I know you'll add in the 'But Garrosh insulted the female wolves in Durotar' segue here... I don't see it like that; it's about time someone called her on her actions.I wasn't even going to
say
anything about Garrosh insulting every she-wolf in Durotar
(although he did)
. From what we've seen so far, he snaps at her, then just lets her do her thing. And she seems to be flouting his directives all over the place.
...if she gets deposed in favor of Voss or someone, I'm gonna cheer.I think most of the player base will heh(myself, I'm still holding out for the Blightcaller if he's still 'alive'... and considering what Psycho Queen is doing with the Val'kyr, I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard for her to raise him again....)
Post by
FarseerLolotea
I think most of the player base will heh(myself, I'm still holding out for the Blightcaller if he's still 'alive'... and considering what Psycho Queen is doing with the Val'kyr, I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard for her to raise him again....)There's actually a reason that I
want
them to be setting up Voss for the role, but I won't go into it.
Post by
Monday
They may be angry and paranoid, but they're direct.
This is true.
Magtha is how the poison was getting to Cairne, so there's your major destabilizing point, the death of the current leader; and the Grimtotems are nothing like the Kurenai: we're doing one quest chain to convince them the enemy of my enemy is my friend and that's it; your not going to see the black furred tauren anywhere else in Alliance lands.
Ah, she poisons him before they leave? I'm not quite up to snuff on Cata info at the moment.
And who knows, there might be more chains with them in the future.
Post by
Adamsm
Magtha is how the poison was getting to Cairne, so there's your major destabilizing point, the death of the current leader; and the Grimtotems are nothing like the Kurenai: we're doing one quest chain to convince them the enemy of my enemy is my friend and that's it; your not going to see the black furred tauren anywhere else in Alliance lands.
Ah, she poisons him before they leave? I'm not quite up to snuff on Cata info at the moment.
And who knows, there might be more chains with them in the future.
She poisons him, Cairne dies in the duel with Garrosh, then the Horde lays siege to Thunder Bluff to get it back from the Grimtotem; but beyond that, I don't see the Grimtotem working again with the Alliance after that quest in Stonetalon, after all, they don't like their own race, and hate the other races who share Kalimdor with them, seeing the entire land as theirs?
Post by
Monday
The Dark Irons might have quests, I don't see why the Grimtotem can't have a few chains either.
After all, if they hate their own race, (who is opposed to the Alliance) and they want all of Kalimdor (I assume you mean Barrens/lower Kalimdor here, as they seem to have had no contact with the Night Elves before joining the Horde), the Alliance can deliver it from the Horde.
And then later strike back and take it from a weaker foe.
Post by
Adamsm
The Dark Irons might have quests, I don't see why the Grimtotem can't have a few chains either.
After all, if they hate their own race, (who is opposed to the Alliance) and they want all of Kalimdor (I assume you mean Barrens/lower Kalimdor here, as they seem to have had no contact with the Night Elves before joining the Horde), the Alliance can deliver it from the Horde.
And then later strike back and take it from a weaker foe.
No, all of Kalimdor; from the snow capped Winterspring to the jungles of Un'goro are meant to belong to them; for a tribe of walking cattle, they are quite racists and supremacist against all other races. As for the Dark Irons; it looks like it's civil war; Moria leads one group, the Dark Irons attacking the Ironforge airport and the like are another one.
Post by
Monday
Dang, that's a rather lame move by Blizzard. Removed any semblance of strategy or goals when fighting. And stereotypes them all.
/annoyed
Post by
Rankkor
Dang, that's a rather lame move by Blizzard. Removed any semblance of strategy or goals when fighting. And stereotypes them all.
/annoyed
welcome to the club buddy :P
NOW you truly and completely see my point of view in this situation.
I really don't like the direction the horde is taking on cataclysm, but since this is still too early, I'll reserve my judgement (though really, dragonmaws+fel orcs+forsakens transforming into Scourge 2.0+facist orcs+marginalized trolls+isolated taurens=a future kinda bleak don't cha think mon?)
Post by
620218
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Tauren are racist and supremist?
Grimtotems are.
Post by
GVHB
Tauren are racist and supremist?
Grimtotems are, they think that all of Kalimdor is theirs. They see others races as inferiors (and others tauren tribes) as inferiors to them.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Dang, that's a rather lame move by Blizzard. Removed any semblance of strategy or goals when fighting. And stereotypes them all.
/annoyed
welcome to the club buddy :P
NOW you truly and completely see my point of view in this situation.
I really don't like the direction the horde is taking on cataclysm, but since this is still too early, I'll reserve my judgement (though really, dragonmaws+fel orcs+forsakens transforming into Scourge 2.0+facist orcs+marginalized trolls+isolated taurens=a future kinda bleak don't cha think mon?)
Though I'm vering away from these threads more so now, I had to add this, yeah dude, people nievely still have this belief that because Garrosh does one or two small things, and gets in everyones face, that its going to make all the other crap happening in the horde better, or something that can be ignored.
The concepts of honor in the horde has changed in cata, and this just fuels my point, that without Thrall there to guide the horde by example, it begins to fail.
All I can hope, is that as cata develops, the story will shift to what Thrall is doing to restore the world, and peopel will begin to see him for what he does, and realise 'oh, maybe Thrall is the better man'.
Post by
GVHB
Or maybe, Garrosh will do more things to show that he can be in charge. Obviously, we can't know right now. Maybe Garrosh turns to be an incompetent Warchief and he needs to be replaced, or he can show he can deal with the responsibility of his position.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
The concepts of honor in the horde has changed in cata, and this just fuels my point, that without Thrall there to guide the horde by example, it begins to fail.Yup, because the Horde is just that weak and it needs Thrall to hold it's hand and play Daddy.
All I can hope, is that as cata develops, the story will shift to what Thrall is doing to restore the world, and peopel will begin to see him for what he does, and realise 'oh, maybe Thrall is the better man'.And Baine, Vol'jin, Varian, Jaina, Tyrande, Malfurion, Magni(if he does truly survive), Moira, Muradin and all the rest... after all, the game isn't 'World of Thrall'. But hey, we keep putting in that Garrosh is the temporary Warchief, and you keep ignoring it because it doesn't fit your view so whatever.
Post by
Rankkor
Tauren are racist and supremist?
Grimtotems are.
^
all races need some evil element on them, otherwise is not realistic.
let's take a look at human civilizations for a clear example.
most americans are upstanding honest good citizens, and yet the ku klux klan was a prominently american terrorist group.
almost all the arabs are peaceful by nature (as one of the main tennets of the coran is peace) and yet there's the extremists with their own interpretation of it who use it as an excuse to kill as many people as posible.
this also translates to wow.
every race has a sub-group of that race alone wich is quite nasty.
Humans, their evil counterpart is the zealous scarlet crusade.
Dwarves, their evil counterpart is the dark iron clan. (and to some extent the iron dwarves too)
Gnomes, their evil counterpart is the lepper gnomes (and to some extent the mecha-gnomes too)
Night-elves, their evil counterpart were the highborne, who got split into A: the shen'dralar, B: the naga, and C: the satyr (with some other highborne becoming white elves xD my my talk about genetic diversity)
Draenei: their evil counterpart are both the man'ari eredar and the auchenai dark priests.
Orcs: their evil counterpart are the dragonmaw orcs in outland, the fel orcs in outland, the dark horde in blackrock spire, ect.
Trolls: just about every non-playable troll is evil xD, from the amani, the gurubashi, the drakkari, :P
Tauren: their evil counterpart are the grimtotems, and to a small lesser extent the taunka (the taunka aren't evil, but they do force the elements to do their bidding, they take rather than give wich is the oposite of what a shaman should do)
Forsakens: :S what can I say? I think you can count with 1 hand the number of nice forsakens U_U I'm almost embarrased to call them "horde"
Blood elves: before their 180º in patch 2.4 they used to be quite evil, however their civilization as a whole has changed dramatically after it, their evil counterparts now are the sunfury elves (as well as the other 5 clans that followed kael'thas) and the fel-blood elves, and the wretched.
Special cataclysm mention:......................................................................................................
Worgens: just about every non-playable worgen is evil, as they act like mindless beasts who live to kill and mangle and rend and tear apart everything that moves, they are mindless killing machines without a soul. The Gilnean worgens are the only exeption to this rule and only after being purified by the scite of elune.
Goblin: this race isn't good or evil, they are just greedy, they take the path that offers the greatest profit, if siding with the bad guys pays more then they side with the baddies, if siding with the good pays more they side with the goodies. this race really doesn't at all fits into the entirely evil group, as each individual goblin has a fully distinct personality, and as such each cartel (bilgewater, steamweedle, ventrue) has goblins who are EXTREMELY EVIL and goblins who are actually quite heroic.
(examples of a heroic goblin includes the expedition of k3 :P)
Post by
Adamsm
Worgens: just about every non-playable worgen is evil, as they act like mindless beasts who live to kill and mangle and rend and tear apart everything that moves, they are mindless killing machines without a soul. The Gilnean worgens are the only exeption to this rule and only after being purified by the scite of elune.
I wouldn't call the feral aspect of themselves evil, most of them are just uncontrollable beasts, and they merely react as their animal sense tell them to... they don't intentionally got out and kill specific people after all, and both the Scythe and the Argual experiments are good examples of that. Then again, I don't think there are any non-intelligent ones out there, that aren't altered into something else(considering the Ashenvale and Duskwood ones). But the Gilneas Worgen themselves have a faction who want to wipe out all the cursed humans(the apothecary who created the original cure is one of them).
Post by
FarseerLolotea
Tauren are racist and supremist?Tauren in general? No. The Grimtotem clan? Yes.
Yup, because the Horde is just that weak and it needs Thrall to hold it's hand and play Daddy.No, but it'd do better with Vol'jin or Gorgonna or someone else with a lick of common sense in charge.
I wouldn't call the feral aspect of themselves evil, most of them are just uncontrollable beasts, and they merely react as their animal sense tell them to... they don't intentionally got out and kill specific people after all, and both the Scythe and the Argual experiments are good examples of that. Then again, I don't think there are any non-intelligent ones out there, that aren't altered into something else(considering the Ashenvale and Duskwood ones). But the Gilneas Worgen themselves have a faction who want to wipe out all the cursed humans(the apothecary who created the original cure is one of them).The Book of Ur claims that the majority of worgen are evil. Then again...well, I'm sure everyone knows by now what I have to say about worgen lore and fan-base consistency.
That said: Gorgonna for Warchief!
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