Spec-ing pets for DPS and tanking

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Post by ljudsnubbe

I find Taunt a waste, I use Glyph of Misdirection instead.

BM-speccs I use:
-Pure Tenacity survival-specc (pet: Beetle): http://www.wowhead.com/petcalc#Vk0G0r00fo0b (4 free points for threat/utility-talents of your choise. 2 points in Lionhearted for shorter stuns/fears will possibly increase survivability even more, but I dont find it very usefull)
-Pure Ferocity DPS-specc (pet: Devilsaur): http://www.wowhead.com/petcalc#mdbz0ssz0hoRb
-Lazy 2-button Ferocity survival/DPS-specc (pet: Spirit Beast, with Spirit Mend macroed to my normal attacks, targeted at pet, for minimal efford required): http://www.wowhead.com/petcalc#mdbc0foz0hoRb

Observe: I prefer Charge instead of Dash, so on Ferocity-pets I put one point for more stamina to get to 2nd tier. This is of course up to personal preference.

Post by ljudsnubbe

Sure I can see some situations were taunt is of use, but I just think there are better things to use our talents for. I just dont see any reason to have it in every one of the recomended speccs Cialbi linked earlier.
But again: its up to personal preference. If you use it often, grab it. If you (like me) have tried it but
hardly ever needed to use it, skip it and grab something else, since there are other things to do to fix aggro problems.

However, we probably do different things with our hunters. I dont do any endgame/hardcore stuff, just casual playing, like soloing old raids, pvping and dungeons.

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Post by Lorkin

Glyph of Misdirection isn't a replacement for taunt. I've had tanks die mid heroic boss and even with Misdirect your pet isn't going to get instant threat above the other dps or healers. With taunt you can accomplish this and it may just save the day. Definitely worth getting for a pet tank build.

Post by ljudsnubbe

Warning, wall of text:

Ok, I understand, taunt is loved by the hunter community. However...
Glyph of Misdirection isn't a replacement for taunt. I've had tanks die mid heroic boss and even with Misdirect your pet isn't going to get instant threat above the other dps or healers. With taunt you can accomplish this and it may just save the day. Definitely worth getting for a pet tank build.
1: Why bring a tenacity-pet to dungeons? To have a spare tank if your tank dies? Or off-tanking spawning adds etc? I can absolutely see situations were this would be nice, but I see it as exceptions, not the standard way of doing things. Its like raiding with to many healers: your survivability will improve, but if dps is to low the raid will suffer as well. I can only think of one tenacity pet Id bring regulary to dungeons: Gorilla, for interupts, and then Id "dps-specc" it as much as possible. Tankspeccs are for tanking: when you do solosuff and such. And being the class with most threat-managing-tools in the entire game, I seldom finds taunt nesessary. At least thats my opinion, you are of course allowed to think differently.
2: As I stated earlier, we probably do things on a different level. I play very casual nowadays, Im not even 85 yet on my current hunter (Ive got a 85 hunter on another server so Ive played a bit on maxlevel, but friends server-changed and I had an old lvl 60 hunter on that server so Id thought Id level that one instead of paying for a serverchange for my 85). I quest, do dungeons, and solo oldschool raids atm, and I hardly ever feel I need a taunt. BUT, since I last posted Ive respecced a pet for Taunt to give it a second shot. Im still not impressed, but will keep it for now and possibly get back later if I change my mind about it.

Now, the real reason I wanted to post:
I got some questions on the subject while we are at it, and Cialbi you seem to be the one to ask.
I basicly have this BM-tankspecc so far and want some more dps (got free talents I dont know were to put, Im not far from 85 so got them all): http://www.wowhead.com/petcalc#0u0GzrMzbo0b

A few explanations:
I want Last Stand in the specc, I think its very usefull. Boars Speed is there for faster positioning etc, and I just cant stand playing with a pet without some form of speedincreasing talent.
Im not sure how usefull Natural Armor and Pet barding are but to me they seem good, but Ive left out Great Resistance since I find it only marginally useful. You havnt hooked me on taunt yet, but Im trying it out again on a different pet, possibly I will grow to like it but I still dont find myself needing it very often, so Ill leave it out in this specc (for now).

So, 3 free talents for more dps, and heres the question:
Wich talents provide the most dps (per talent-point, since I only got 3 to spare). Serpent swiftness, Spiked collar, or Culling the herd? And is wild hunt worth taking at all on a Tenacity-pet? (I dont feel it is, and you "waste" 1 talent on RoS wich I think is a useless ability)

I will possibly work around the problem by using 2 different tenacity-pets. One for extreme survival (Turtle, specc: http://www.wowhead.com/petcalc#Mc0GzrMzfo0b) and one for more casual stuff (Gorilla, for Pummel-interupt, specced http://www.wowhead.com/petcalc#0udhhbGzb00b or http://www.wowhead.com/petcalc#0ubhubuzb0oM if you think Wild Hunt is any good)

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Post by ljudsnubbe

Thx for the reply Gadgetmoss!

yea, Im a fan of charge as well and usually have it in my speccs. This time I left it out because of the high focuscost, but I do miss it when I run without it so Ill probably respecc back to it. Thx for the comment on Wild Hunt, Ill pick it up for my Gorilla

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Post by ljudsnubbe

..tanking/soloing talents for pets aren't debated much at all. So, I do encourage debate on this, since it gives me a rare chance to bounce my ideas off someone who's interested but holds their own opinions.
Wow, love you allready. Most people only want to have "discussions" with people who allready chare their opinions. I find that a bit strange..

Personally, I tend to choose Culling the Herd. Unlike Serpent Swiftness and Spiked Collar, Culling the Herd will buff Thunderstomp (more AoE threat) and Kill Command (more DPS & single-target threat) in addition to white damage (which Serpent Swiftness buffs) and Basic Attack (which Spiked Collar buffs).

Omg, havnt even thought of that. When you take that into consideration, just buffing KC alone makes Culling of the herd the better of the talents (even though it doesnt have 100% uptime). Cant believe I missed that. Thx for pointing that out.
Btw, I did some testing last night, on Serpent swiftness (2/2) vs Spiked collar (2/3), only fireing arcane shot to trigger Cobra strikes and Sick EM! (ignoring KC since its irrelevant in this case). Spiked Collar (only 2 points) came out a marginally winner, but the differens in dps was very small so could just as well be a lucky streak of crits (only tested about 5 minutes in each specc).

As for Wild Hunt, the intent of that talent is to give a means for pets to avoid being focus-capped, and in doing so does more damage per focus used. However, with Tenacity tanks having a greater Focus demand due to Thunderstomp, I also tend to shy away from that talent...

...That said, I would recommend moving one of the points in the latter spec from Wild Hunt to Guard Dog, since two points in Wild Hunt means that Wild Hunt-empowered Basic Attacks will eat almost all of your pets focus in an instant and thus probably delay the next Thunderstomp.

I see your point, but as for now Ill keep 2 points in Wild hunt since I often turn Thunderstomps autocast of on my gorilla, to save focus on pulls where aoe-threat isnt needed (most of the time 2-3 TSs are anough anyway). I kind of use it as a dps-pet, even though its unfortunally tenacity. I bring it only for Pummel, and will probably take out my shale spider from the stables and specc it the same way (I dont use it much... cmon, what groups doesnt have neither a pala or a druid?), and tank with my turtle (terrorpene! yey, I got it).

Unfortunally Wild Hunt and Charge does not work well in the same specc. I love charge so not sure what to do about it. Ill probably keep it anyway, but it really consumes to much focus to be effective in a Wild Hunt specc... sad Gorilla