Religion

Post by 168916

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Monday

If you want me to name names, send me an email.

I don't want you to name names, I want you not to smear a large group of people that includes me.

My bad.

Let me amend my original statement: There's far worse said from a large portion of atheist crowd on a regular basis.

Post by ElhonnaDS

Ok- before this all gets out of hand, I was directing my question at the specific group of people who DO have anger against people who are religious specifically because of being religious. I tried to put every disclaimer I could think of to show I know it's not all, or most people who don't believe in god, and it is by no means only one group that show irrational anger (and therefore not something I was attributing to atheism itself), but apparently no matter how narrowly I phrase the question, it's being treated like a generalization.

All I wanted to know was what the thought process was that made some people think believing in god is so much more offensive than believing in ghosts, or UFO's or any other thing that they may believe is completely unbelievable but doesn't generate the same types of responses from those particular people. It was a genuine question, asking for specific reasoning, from the specific small group of people that it applied to.

Clearly, this went right to the "Don't say this about atheists," vs. "Atheists say it about us," argument, when that's not what I was looking to go at all. If you have no anger about people believing in God, then this question had nothing to do with you. If you do, then me asking "Why?" should be fairly simple. And I certainly take no offense to people being atheist because I'm not religious and I don't care. I tried to put in copious amounts of language to show I was not talking about all atheists, or most of them, but apparently that was viewed as some half-**** apology or mitigation rather than what it was, which was an attempt to be specific and not make sweeping generalizations.

In any event, clearly the answer is not worth the response to the question from the people I'm not even talking to or about, so I'm just going to write off the thread and move on.

Post by OverZealous

Post by Gone

@ElhonnaDS

Some people just get offended by any wide spread or popular belief that they strongly disagree with. Thats why you sometimes see some atheists attacking religious views even though theres no harm in their mind, of what a person believes.

Some religious people attack atheists based on the same thing, although depending on the religion some people do think their just trying to help others. But there are plenty of people who do it for the first reason as well.

@fenomas

I know its not your intention, but comparing peoples beliefs to a unicorn can be construed as disrespectfull. I remember getting upset at somebody once (I dont remember if it was here or in RL) because they compared religion to Harry Potter.

To you there might not be any more proof of any religion or God than of a unircon, but because of the fanciful nature of unicorns people could be offended by the comparison to a belief that they base their lives off of.

It also comes with the implication that there is no proof worth considering of the existance of God, since (to the best of my knowledge) there is no proof of any actual existance of a made up creature, which is another thing some people might disagree with.

Post by Monday

I'd appreciate it if people would just say "Some atheists say X about religious people" instead of "Atheists say X about religious people". After all, one is true and the other makes it seem as if all atheists say a specific thing about religious people, something I won't agree with. I don't, for example.

Sorry, OZ =/

I'll try to keep focused from now on.

Post by MyTie

As a Christian, I want other people to become Christian because I believe it will help them become more fulfilled people, and will lead to their eternal life. As a Christian, I understand that this is a decision that I cannot force on others.

With that understanding, I approach atheists and try to explain Christianity if they want to hear it. I try to defend an accurate portrayal of Christianity, and hope that someone is enlightened by it.

I want atheists to become Christian, and that is why.

All of that is said to ask this, to any/all of the atheists here: Do you want Christians to become atheists? Why or why not? If you don't care either way, why argue against Christianity, if you do argue?

Post by 168916

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by 168916

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Monday

Fenomas, I'm not attacking you. I haven't really seen you do that. I have, however, seen several atheists on this forum do exactly what Elhonna mentioned. They are also the loudest, so I tend to equate the atheist crowd with them, because the others don't say much.

Also, I think you missed my growing sarcasm in my last post.

Also, if you're going to continue to call smear, I should ask that you do the same when someone is calling religious people stupid for whatever reason without making any distinction.

Post by Adamsm

But with your question, I simply don't know anyone like you describe, and I wouldn't be surprised if the person you have in mind answered the same way.I do; I've known quite a few religious and atheistic people who have fallen into both camps in regards to the example Elhonna has given, both in real life and on the internet.

So, to try to get it away from a slowly stirring storm of crap going nowhere: Atheists, Christians, Catholics, Muslims, Jewish, even Wiccans are all considered 'untouchable' when it comes to certain comments....so why don't the Scientology believers get the same defense?

I mean I personally can't take them seriously, but that might be more because A) the celeb endorsement of it was just too much and B) the founder was a noted and famous science fiction author. How do we know what was found for this wasn't just some new book he was considering creating?

Post by Gone

This was gone through in detail on pages 1-2.. if you'd prefer a different example please let me know which.

Dude the fact that youve been told already that its offensive and continue to use that example isnt helping you case. The first two things I think of are either that you lack intelligence and just dont get it when people tell you this (or just cant think of a better example, falls under the same thing). Or your just trying to be deliberatly insulting.

Ask yourself this "If i went in front of a group of my friends/family/coworkers and told them all in complete seriousness that I believed in unicorns, how would I look?". Replace the bolded part with any example you want, if the answer you come out with is anything between "Completley insane" or "Stupid", then its a safe bet that you shouldnt be comparing it to religion.(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##This is an unacceptable post. Please do not insult anyone on the forums like this. This discussion remains mature or stops right now.

Post by OverZealous

Post by Sas148

It's sad that I have so much I want to say but don't really feel like typing it all out.

Oh well... I will just say this as I said earlier:

I do not care what everyone else believes, I just don't like when other peoples' beliefs are forced upon me. That's really the jist of it for me when I argue against religion. Actually, I don't even really argue against religion... as I don't believe people shouldn't be religious, I just don't like it affecting people who aren't, and it does, a lot!

Post by MyTie

I think sas came pretty close to answering my questions up there. Thanks.

Post by ElhonnaDS

Post by Adamsm

You know, to me the use of the 'Unicorn argument' just seems like Godwin'ing something; beyond being really offensive, insulting and making it seem like the other side have brain issues, it never helps a discussion, and just keeps people rabidly attacking each other.

That being said, as pretty much anyone here who has ever read any of the supernatural threads, knows that I personally believe all of the mythical beasts and races are still out there somewhere; they are just really good at hiding. And hearing Unicorns being used in this idiotic way, just makes my blood boil.

Post by MyTie

I don't think an example is needed. It is effective communication to say "God isn't proven". It is unnecessary to say "God isn't proven, so it's like believing in aliens, unicorns, superman, harry potter, gandalf, etc etc etc". Whether appropriate or not, it causes problems. If it isn't necessary to make your point, and it causes problems, then it can safely be left off. If it isn't necessary, and it causes problems, and people (unnamed) still insist on using it, then I speculate that the intent there is to cause problems.

Post by 168916

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Gone

Just to put a suggestion out there for comparisons that might be less offensive to one side, and still seem relevant to the other, how about using things that there are believed by a significant number of people but not proven or fully accepted. More neutral options might be unseen paranormal activity like house hauntings, psychic readings, aliens, astrology, etc. If these offend people, I'm sorry, but I chose them because there are a number of people who believe these things either exist of have the possibility of existing, as well as a number who think they're completely unbelievable, and so are more applicable than things that are universally considered not real, like mythical beasts and modern fiction.

I dont wanna go on record saying that popular opinion = credibility, but thats actually a pretty good way to go about it. If only for the objective of offending as few people as possible while still getting your point across. A lot of the stuff you mentioned (to the non religious, ubiased observer) probably comes with a similar ammount of credibility as many religions.

Possible, some may say likley, some may say unlikley, but not completley insane however you spin it. As aposed to ~~unicorns~~, Harry Potter, flying spagettie monster, and to use another example Ive seen somebody use around here "magic elves that live in the forrest in Germany". All of which is complete $%^& that anybody older than 12 knows is 100% fantasy.

EDIT: Ok take out the part about unicorns... sorry Adam

Religion

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