Prot DPS/PVP - Protribution Guide - Updated 3.3!

Post by DrvUMad

Ok here's the full PvE rotation based on your suggestions.

0 Avenger's Shield(30)
1.5 Hammer of the righteous
3 Consecration
4.5 Shield of Righteousness
6 Judgement of Wisdom
7.5 Hammer of the Righteous
9 Exorcism(15)
10.5 Shield of Righteousness
12 Consecration
13.5 Hammer of the righteous
15 Judgement of Wisdom
16.5 Shield of Righteousness
18 wait -insert ability-
19.5 Hammer of the righteous
21 Consecration
22.5 Shield of Righteousness
24 Exorcism
25.5 Hammer of the righteous
27 Judgement of Wisdom
28.5 Shield of Righteousness

-repeatable-

it could be tweaked slightly on the 2nd pass for a 1.5 second sooner Exorcism, but for simplicities sake I wont go that far into a rotation. What do you think?

Post by DrvUMad

On a lvl 80 test dummy using my above rotation (with NO trinkets) I managed:

DPS 2742 over 58.5-60 seconds or so (out of mana by this point on dummy with DP running from start)

1 SotR x10 =39891
2 SoB x37 =30196
3 Melee x27 =29082
4 HotR x23 =23220
5 Cons x48 =15798
6 Exo x4 =11774
7 Judge x6 =7422
8 AS x2 =7142

164525 damage done

I'll do another run as ret with no trinkets for comparison.

EDIT: Important note, I forgot to mention I respecced last night to the PvE spec in the OP of this thread, so I am now using Touched by the Light 3/3 and 2/3 Sanctity of Battle.

Post by DrvUMad

2945 DPS over 58.5-60 seconds or so. Also no trinkets this run:

Seal of Blood x32 =45126
Melee x19 =34397
CS x9 =23792
DS x6 =18285
Judge x7 =18093
Cons x40 =16015
Righteous Vengeance x22 =10635
Exo x4 =10404

176747 Damage Done.

This is an ugly FCFS rotation. Had I started with Cons and ended with Cons properly I bet the numbers would be higher still slightly. You'll note I only managed 40 ticks in the same time period because I used it last in my first rotation.

Post by DrvUMad

Last post on these tests, I swear. My last 2 runs were not apples to apples. I do replace a handful of pieces for gear I feel is better suited for Prot DPS. I removed them from the picture completely and ran straight Ret gear Ret spec vs Ret Gear Prot DPS spec.

The end result for Prot DPS was lower still with:

154761 over 58.5-60 seconds for 2579 DPS on average.

Has anoyone else done any controlled comparisons and come up with different results?

Post by Squishalot

What else did you change? Your Shield of Righteousness was hitting for 20% less than it was in the previous test (4k vs 5k). Bad luck with crits, or was there a change you didn't mention?

And what weapon are you using in the Ret test?

Post by svirve

DrvUMad

Even though i havn't been really active in this thread lately i've been keeping my eye on it to stay updated.

I'd like to thank you very very much for the parses you've been feeding us lately. And according to the numbers squishy has been showing it leads me to believe that the spreadsheet we have is very well done (squishys spread number was within 150 DPS of your number).

Also i'd like to ask of you one more thing. If you could either write down the gear you're using for each test. I was thinking armory first but realised you have two different sets of gear.
Or just link us the armory and tell us what gear you're switching :).

Once again thanks alot for the parses, really proves that all the hard work has not been in vain.

And ofcourse thanks squishy for staying here even though i practically went a-wall. But summer is getting to me and with 3.2 on the horizon i'm temporarily without motivation.

Post by 331221

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Squishalot

Also i'd like to ask of you one more thing. If you could either write down the gear you're using for each test. I was thinking armory first but realised you have two different sets of gear.
Or just link us the armory and tell us what gear you're switching :).

Profiler is a wonderful thing. I would still need to mouse over each piece of equipment to feed it into the spreadsheet, but it's still pretty good.

As for our spread number, it's still a bit far away. But I'm thinking that it's a combination of not having the exact gear (I was guesstimating stats, based on what DrvUMad had said before), and crits.

@sPiDeRz

Strength, strength, strength. Get titanium plating for your shield wall, if you haven't already.

Not sure about the rotation, but if you're OOMing then you probably don't have Divine Plea on. Turn it on before you head into combat.

What might actually make for a better test - head over to Icecrown with a pocket healer and go after all the giant abomninations, the ones with 130k health. You'll keep your mana up for longer due to spiritual attunement from healing, and it'll be a nice 'real world' test.

Alternatively, if it's just about practising rotation, head to Halaa in Nagrand, and go beat up on the guards when it's owned by the opposite faction. They've got a truckload of hitpoints, and they'll never be able to actually kill you if you're healing, and if you've got Sacred Shield up. Better than a test dummy!

Post by Synectics

Just wanted to throw in my two cents:

I went ahead and tooled around with this on the PTR on a premade character. The reasoning being is that my main doesn't have access to any decent PvE gear, nor a sword and board and the proper gemming.

I slapped on a set of Ret PvP gear and went with the suggested PvP Protribution build, along with pure STR gems (save for one or two orange gems). I haven't tanked on a Protadin in a long time, let alone try to PvP as one, so going into a WSG I felt pretty damn rusty. But to my surprise, somewhere around ten minutes I had already achieved 300k damage and was leading the scoreboard in highest damage done and in HK's. I'm not saying this is the be-all-end-all, but it certainly surprised the hell out of me considering I was still trying to find my buttons.

I continued to do some BGs and a WG, and I was finding that while I wasn't exactly unstoppable, I was able to take three people at a time and pretty well take out all three. I was noticing Avenger Shield critting for 7.5k, which blew my mind (steady hits of around 3k-4k). The 20 second cooldown on the stun was amazing and made it almost impossible for anyone from me when combined with AS. And Ardent Defender is definitely epic in PvP.

With all that success, I decided to go ahead and try PvE as well. I threw on Ret PvE gear, again, gemmed in pure STR (with a few oranges with Hit Rating). I didn't do as well as I would have hoped -- in OS, I was only able to keep up about 2.3k against the bosses, even in full T8. Now, again, I'm pretty rusty, and I was trying my best to keep to a decent 969 but was probably failing miserably. To put it more in perspective, I switched to a Ret build and Ret weapon, and was able to pop up to 3.3k, which feels pretty shallow considering the free purpz premades get. Point is, I'm not that great with our FCFS style either.

Basically, I'm not offering any solid numbers or great testing to go by, but I certainly love Protribution in PvP now, and will definitely be trying to grab a decent one-hander and shield combo on my main, so that I can enjoy PvPing as Prot. Is it better than Ret? WHO GIVES A %^&*? There's nothing that says, "Well hai thar" as well as a shield to the face from twenty yards out. :D!

EDIT: Again, this story will probably not help your spreadsheet, Squish, especially since it's all on the PTR with the recent changes to SotR and such. XD But I just had so much fun with the concept you've been helping develop that I had to share. :D

Post by svirve

It doesn't help our spreadsheet directly synectics but indirectly it gives us hope that it could still be viable in 3.2 :)
Even though your PvE numbers were very different i hope it's your rotation (since you mentioned it not going so well).

Profiler is a wonderful thing. I would still need to mouse over each piece of equipment to feed it into the spreadsheet, but it's still pretty good.

As for our spread number, it's still a bit far away. But I'm thinking that it's a combination of not having the exact gear (I was guesstimating stats, based on what DrvUMad had said before), and crits.

Ah i forgot about profiler ^^.

If our spreadsheet number is off by 100-200 we've done it right. Since the spread number is during optimal conditions. No lag, no human error, no movement, no debuffs.

As long as we dont show spreadsheet numbers below the real numbers the spreadsheet can be considered fully operational ;p

Post by 320645

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by hellomynameis

hi, I just made a post about PvP Prot, didnt find this post before I wrote it.
As mention there, prot is absolutly viable in PvP. 30k hp and 8k crits is fun. And I just started gathering gear. 3.2 will buff starter gear, and nerf ulduar blockvalue gear. My gear will go from 1304 to 1550 blockvalue unbuffed, but buffed and with a trinket popped, it will go from 2014 to 2260(DR starts @ 2400, and the cap is 2760)

So start collecting items with blockvalue on, and change out pieces of your retri gear as you get em. Get a nice prot pvp build, and start annoying people in pvp. :)
Coren's Lucky Coin and Gnomeregan Auto-Blocker 600 is actually the best trinkets for this kinda set.

Post by Squishalot

@Synectics:
Ardent Defender in the PTR - is that basically an extra life every 2 minutes, just as it seems? And it works in PvP? 40% extra EH, here we come!

@Seylon:
Glad you're enjoying it! If you get a chance, can you possibly link us some of the data from your runs? Even just something like what DrvUMad has done earlier on this page - data is good =)

@hellomynameis:

That won't keep you viable against decently geared players in BG and most definitely not Arena.

Itemising for BV will have two main problems - gimping your overall damage, and reducing Resilience (since Prot items aren't spec'd for PvP).

Overall, the block value cap will have a dampening effect on Prot PvP from the ShoR burst perspective, especially since it won't work for end-game, and as such, won't encourage players to use it.

Post by 428404

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Squishalot

At present, it's not worth it, since you'll have Seal of Blood/Martyr, which is better.

SoC vs SoV - in a PvP context, SoC might be better, depending on how long the battle goes for, and whether the SoV debuffs are dispellable. You've got a lot of time to build up 5 stacks over the course of a battle, so unless you're trying to cleave an opponent in the first 10-15 seconds, SoV will be better in the long run, SoC will be better in the short run.

In a PvE context, SoV wins hands down.

Divine Guardian won't help in duels - there's no raid/party members who gain anything from it. In arena, it might be useable, but the extra burst you get from Reckoning, or the extra healing you get from Improved Devotion Aura, or the extra armour you get from Toughness... all those things will probably be more useful. Maybe in 5v5 it might be more appealing - I don't know, I don't play in that bracket.

Post by svirve

Bored so did some 3.2 modeling.

It's really simple stuff but meh i'll put it here.

SoV:
Damage SP AP
Total 475 500 500
Tick 95
Judge 271,5

E16 = SP
F16 = AP
D16 = Total/Damage
Damage: =((0,013*E16+0,025*F16)*5)*5
Tick: =D16/5
Judge: =(1+0,22*E16+0,14*F16)*1,5

SoC:
Damage SP AP MW mw
Total 45 500 500 150 100
Judge 128,75

E22 = SP
F22 = AP
G22 = MW
H22 = mw
Damage: =((0,36*H22)+(0,36*G22))/2
Judge: =((0,19*H22+0,08*F22+0,13*E22)+(0,19*G22+0,08*F22+0,13*E22))/2
As you can see these two are average since SoC has min+max damage.

This is basically what's on the PTR site here on wowhead but transformed to excel format.
What needs to be done for it to be implemented in the spreadsheet is:
Add skills to both Seals.
Weapon speeds.
Change variables.
Maybe something more i might have missed something.

ShotR:

Min: =(Q21+520)*(1+$'Talents After'.B73)
Max: =(Q21+520)*(1+$'Talents After'.B73)

I just removed the 1.3 multiplier simple copy+paste into the spreadsheet.

I'm pretty sure this will be of no use to anyone since it's mindnumbingly easy to do but for those not familiar with excel it makes me look like i'm smart :)

Post by Squishalot

That looks like a 3.1 model for SoV? SoV doesn't have the 33% MW damage in your formula. But that's a pretty good representation of what it's like at the moment.

Your DPS will be (tick value) / 3 --- each tick triggers every 3 seconds. Although I'm not sure what we could do about how often it refreshes, how does the proc timer work when you apply a new melee hit?

We'll also need to put the soft and hard caps on BV in as well. But I'm lazy at the moment - I've got a thesis that needs a lot more attention and isn't getting any either. =)

Post by svirve

Lol that's my bad.. As i said i just copy pasted what was on the PTR site and adapted it to excel^^
I forgot reading the actual tooltip ;p Will fix it after VoA in a min :)

Doesn't the tick come every 3 seconds? Thus making it 1/5 of the full amount.

Yea this was just something that i did on a whim.

I'll fix up the SoV formula once i'm done in VoA wont be more than 10-15 mins since we're ready to go atm.
After that i'll look into tinkering a bit more with the spreadsheet.

Nice to see you online btw squishy ;p

Post by Squishalot

Hehe, you haven't been staying up late recently ;p

Tick is every 3 seconds, so that bit is right. But your DPS from the tick, by definition, is tickdamage/3, to get it at a per-second basis. I'm just wondering what happens when you refresh.

Suppose that you hit at time 0

0: Hit, debuff starts timing
3: Tick - 95 damage.
4.5 Hit, debuff refreshes

Does the next tick come at 6, or at 7.5?

Post by svirve

Hmm thought i posted here yesterday must've missed it..

I have been staying up late but i've been in the wrong places when doing so ^^

I would assume that the tick works like (i assume) it does now. The ticks are determined by the time the debuff is placed, after that additional applications of the debuff will increase the stack amount and refresh the duration.
So basically:
0: Debuff starts
3: Tick 95
4.5 Debuff is refreshed and increase in stack
6: Tick 190 damage
And so on...
If you're familiar with deadly poison for rogues i'd assume it works the same way.
If the above example would prove to be untrue SoV would be the most worthless spell we practically have.
Since it's refreshed by each attack, the odds of not doing an attack in 2 GCDs as either ret or prot are small enough for me to say 'omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomgomg' for 2 hours straight if you do.

I know i also forgot the SoV rework i had to do last night but i'll do it asap.

Prot DPS/PVP - Protribution Guide - Updated 3.3!

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