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If There is No God... (debate)
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Post by
Malgayne
I am sure that if I were to research is further, I would find more reasons. Islam has been right on many, many counts that I am willing to believe anything it says, even if there's insufficient data (by which I mean that the data is there, I just can't see it at the time being)
This is a legitimate method of making decisions. It sounds bad here, because religious people have a reputation for taking very silly things "on faith". But let's be fair. If your mother told you something was true, and she's usually right, and she's got no reason to lie to you, why wouldn't you believe her?
Once that you've established that you believe the Bible (or the Kor'an) is a credible source, there's no reason not to give it the "benefit of the doubt".
Skeptics call it "the benefit of the doubt" when they agree with it, and "blind faith" when they disagree with it, but it's basically the same thing.
Post by
blademeld
but you can't just say "they're both perfectly good options, whichever floats your boat."
Why not? I see nothing wrong with other people practitcing different religions, it's when they start debating with eachother that it drives me mad since I see no base for either argument.
That's playing right into Malgayne's hands, what you can say is, "Malgayne, if that's what floats your boat, feel free to believe that a person must be right or wrong."
Post by
Malgayne
but you can't just say "they're both perfectly good options, whichever floats your boat."
Why not? I see nothing wrong with other people practitcing different religions, it's when they start debating with eachother that it drives me mad since I see no base for either argument.
What you're saying is "I have no problem with people believing the sky is green, or red, or whatever color they want to believe. It's when they start debating with eachother that drives me mad, since I see no reason to think it's any color at all."
What I'm asking is, "What color is the sky?"
Post by
304197
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
blademeld
@ASHelmy alright, looking forward to the fruits of your labour.
Post by
ASHelmy
I am sure that if I were to research is further, I would find more reasons. Islam has been right on many, many counts that I am willing to believe anything it says, even if there's insufficient data (by which I mean that the data is there, I just can't see it at the time being)
This is a legitimate method of making decisions. It sounds bad here, because religious people have a reputation for taking very silly things "on faith". But let's be fair. If your mother told you something was true, and she's usually right, and she's got no reason to lie to you, why wouldn't you believe her?
Once that you've established that you believe the Bible (or the Kor'an) is a credible source, there's no reason not to give it the "benefit of the doubt".
Skeptics call it "the benefit of the doubt" when they agree with it, and "blind faith" when they disagree with it, but it's basically the same thing.
But if I believed my mother to be all knowing (because she told me so, and I can't find any reason for her to lie to me), and on account of her being so right, so many times, I would believe her. However, if I have to convince someone else, I would of course have to disregard that and provide actual proof for everything she says.
Post by
ASHelmy
@ASHelmy alright, looking forward to the fruits of your labour.
I will have an answer by tomorrow (if you are still interested by then, that is).
Post by
blademeld
Make sure you look up pork too, and other animals as well.
I know it goes something along the lines of "because pigs will eat anything including garbage, and you can't change the nature of an animal" but if that's the only reason you wouldn't be eating rabbits either.
Post by
ASHelmy
Make sure you look up pork too, and other animals as well.
I know it goes something along the lines of "because pigs will eat anything including garbage, and you can't change the nature of an animal" but if that's the only reason you wouldn't be eating rabbits either.
Doubt it's the only reason, but don't judge the whole religion based on this.
Post by
blademeld
Bacon is a religion... or at least a brain washing occult.
:P
No, I won't judge Islam on that one part, but that one booklet (100+ pages mind you) I read to give myself knowledge on the subject ticked me off on a couple things.
Pork is a big part of it.
Post by
ASHelmy
Bacon is a religion... or at least a brain washing occult.
:P
No, I won't judge Islam on that one part, but that one booklet (100+ pages mind you) I read to give myself knowledge on the subject ticked me off on a couple things.
Pork is a big part of it.
You shouldn't trust just any booklet, are you sure the source was reliable?
Post by
Malgayne
Doubt it's the only reason, but don't judge the whole religion based on this.
You can't decide whether a religion is true based on whether you agree with its precepts. You can decide based on whether it's precepts are consistent (ie, "we can eat rabbits but not pigs? They're both garbage-eaters"), but you can't decide whether it's true based on whether or not you personally agree with it.
If Islam is true, and God really does not want you to eat pork, then God—the all-knowing creator of the universe—doesn't want you to eat pork, and even if you think He's crazy, it doesn't matter. He's God, he wins. :P
The same is true if you're talking about Christianity, or any other religion. You need to find what's TRUE, not just what you like. :)
Post by
blademeld
You shouldn't trust just any booklet, are you sure the source was reliable?
It was quite reliable, there were several web references that I checked out, but that was months ago and I threw out the booklet so I couldn't tell you which one.
Post by
ASHelmy
Doubt it's the only reason, but don't judge the whole religion based on this.
You can't decide whether a religion is true based on whether you agree with its precepts. You can decide based on whether it's precepts are consistent (ie, "we can eat rabbits but not pigs? They're both garbage-eaters"), but you can't decide whether it's true based on whether or not you personally agree with it.
If Islam is true, and God really does not want you to eat pork, then God—the all-knowing creator of the universe—doesn't want you to eat pork, and even if you think He's crazy, it doesn't matter. He's God, he wins. :P
The same is true if you're talking about Christianity, or any other religion. You need to find what's TRUE, not just what you like. :)
This, I doubt the Qu'ran says don't eat pigs because they eat garbage, we just tried to come up with a reason and messed up. I will research this.
Also, Malgayne, I asked for a name change, did you read my e-mail? :D
Post by
184848
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Malgayne
I read it, I've just been buried under projects this week. I'll get it changed as soon as I get this other stuff knocked out. :)
Post by
blademeld
The same is true if you're talking about Christianity, or any other religion. You need to find what's TRUE, not just what you like. :)
How do you know what's true? I understand it's not just what you like, but aren't you able to make your own decisions despite what your religion says?
I think that leads back to what is morally right question.
Post by
ASHelmy
I read it, I've just been buried under projects this week. I'll get it changed as soon as I get this other stuff knocked out. :)
Thanks a lot mate =).
Post by
Malgayne
How do you know what's true? I understand it's not just what you like, but aren't you able to make your own decisions despite what your religion says?
Of course. But there are some truths in my religion that I'm not very comfortable with, and if I decide that I think they're true, then I have to adapt my behavior to accommodate to the truth.
Just like anything else. If I find out that my a makeup company does cruel and inhumane tests on animals—assuming I care about animals—I have to change my behavior to accommodate.
How do I decide what's true? Occam's Razor. The original text is something like: "Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." The idea is that given two potential explanations for something, all other things being equal, the explanation that requires the
fewest assumptions
is most likely to be correct.
Christianity, I think, is based on one or two assumptions (depending on how you slice it): that there is one omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, God, and that Jesus is his divine son. Those assumptions, if you accept them as true, explain a
lot
of things.
That's waaay oversimplified and it's not really what this thread is supposed to be about, so I don't want to get too far into it. But that's the gist of it.
Post by
ASHelmy
How do you know what's true? I understand it's not just what you like, but aren't you able to make your own decisions despite what your religion says?
Of course. But there are some truths in my religion that I'm not very comfortable with, and if I decide that I think they're true, then I have to adapt my behavior to accommodate to the truth.
Just like anything else. If I find out that my a makeup company does cruel and inhumane tests on animals—assuming I care about animals—I have to change my behavior to accommodate.
How do I decide what's true? Occam's Razor. The original text is something like: "Entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." The idea is that given two potential explanations for something, all other things being equal, the explanation that requires the
fewest assumptions
is most likely to be correct.
Christianity, I think, is based on one or two assumptions (depending on how you slice it): that there is one omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, God, and that Jesus is his divine son. Those assumptions, if you accept them as true, explain a
lot
of things.
That's waaay oversimplified and it's not really what this thread is supposed to be about, so I don't want to get too far into it. But that's the gist of it.
How does the knowledge that Jesus is the son of god explain anything?
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