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Homosexuality General Discussion
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Post by
Jubilee
Whose popular belief?
Post by
Adamsm
Most of the world who quotes 'The Customer is always right'?
Post by
Jubilee
I'm not sure what that has to do with the article. I don't know of anyone claiming that she couldn't do what she did, the article didn't, and I didn't either.
Further, the phrase you're quoting originates from the retailers
. They are the ones who are trying to put the customers at ease. Could we not be contrary for the sake of being contrary? No need to build up straw men just so you have something to respond to.
Post by
Adamsm
I agreed that the manager is a massive bigot, and should have told the bride no in a different way that wasn't about racist comments; but the writer of the article seems to feel the need to apologize for everyone at once....which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
Edit: And yes the phrase started with stores, but since then, it's not true any longer as any retailer has the right to refuse service.
Post by
Jubilee
She's apologizing for the things that gays have to put up with. What is wrong with that?
Edit: And yes the phrase started with stores, but since then, it's not true any longer as any retailer has the right to refuse service.
It never was true. It was a slogan to put customers at ease, just like what I link says =P
Post by
Atik
I'm not sure what that has to do with the article. I don't know of anyone claiming that she couldn't do what she did, the article didn't, and I didn't either.
Further, the phrase you're quoting originates from the retailers
. They are the ones who are trying to put the customers at east.
The saying has been adopted to everything though.
I work at Wal-Mart and we have a tendancy to get packed full during tourist season. The customers will constantly complain that we employees should do something about how busy it is.
Basically, we tell them the truth. There is nothing we can do, as we can't just go around kicking people out of the story.
Their response? "I thought the customer was always right"
...
Post by
Jubilee
I'm not sure what that has to do with the article. I don't know of anyone claiming that she couldn't do what she did, the article didn't, and I didn't either.
Further, the phrase you're quoting originates from the retailers
. They are the ones who are trying to put the customers at east.
The saying has been adopted to everything though.
I work at Wal-Mart and we have a tendancy to get packed full during tourist season. The customers will constantly complain that we employees should do something about how busy it is.
Basically, we tell them the truth. There is nothing we can do, as we can't just go around kicking people out of the story.
Their response? "I thought the customer was always right"
...
But what does that have to do with anything I've said or linked? No one has said that in regards to this issue, so why build up a straw man with it? You can't say anything in the forum without someone deciding that there is something wrong with it, even if it's only tangentially related =P
Post by
Atik
To show you how, despite the origonation, most of the world relies on the saying in an attempt to attack business people for their actions.
Post by
Adamsm
And as Atik says, a large number of people believe that it's true, even those who should know better.
Edit: And if there were comments available for that article, you'd probably see a large number of people saying that, and that the store should be forced to provide the dress for the customer.
Post by
Jubilee
To show you how, despite the origonation, most of the world relies on the saying in an attempt to attack business people for their actions.
It's not being used here! So to take it out of context makes no sense.
There is nothing wrong with "attacking" business owners for their actions. Bigotry is bigotry. Bad service is bad service. That does not mean that what they're doing is illegal, it just means that it's a mean thing to do.
And as Atik says, a large number of people believe that it's true, even those who should know better.
Edit: And if there were comments available for that article, you'd probably see a large number of people saying that, and that the store should be forced to provide the dress for the customer.
So could save your arguments about that for those people?
Post by
Atik
We're vaugely agreeing with you in that the article really wasn't needed to be written.
For example, if the people had been, say, rednecks rather than gay, and the store wouldn't provide the dress for that reason; the artical would be "meh" if it exsisted at all.
In my mind at least, gay is slowly becomming the new black. Not trying to be racist or anything, but if you look at it this way, it makes sense:
If you beat up a black guy, no matter your reason, you are labeled racist.
If you beat up a gay guy, no matter your reason, you are labeled as hating gays.
It is really annoying how many people think minorities need "handicaps" ...
Post by
Jubilee
We're vaugely agreeing with you in that the article really wasn't needed to be written.
How is that agreeing with me? I think the article was great that's why I linked it.
For example, if the people had been, say, rednecks rather than gay, and the store wouldn't provide the dress for that reason; the artical would be "meh" if it exsisted at all.
In my mind at least, gay is slowly becomming the new black. Not trying to be racist or anything, but if you look at it this way, it makes sense:
If you beat up a black guy, no matter your reason, you are labeled racist.
If you beat up a gay guy, no matter your reason, you are labeled as hating gays.
It is really annoying how many people think minorities need "handicaps" ...
If you beat up a gay person
for being gay
then you're properly labeled as hating gays. This store owner obviously is not beating anyone up, but it's still done because the person is gay. Where is the handicap?
Post by
Atik
If you beat up a gay person for being gay then you're properly labeled as hating gays.
That is the way it should work.
But it isn't. What if I beat him up because he refused to repay me $100 I loaned him?
I would still be labeled as anti-gay, which isn't right.
Post by
Jubilee
If you beat up a gay person for being gay then you're properly labeled as hating gays.
That is the way it should work.
But it isn't. What if I beat him up because he refused to repay me $100 I loaned him?
I would still be labeled as anti-gay, which isn't right.
Okay, that's what you think. I have never seen that happen, and I'm right smack in the middle of the gay community, so I have serious doubts about that.
But how is that relevant to the article or the situation?
Who are you arguing against?
Post by
Atik
The fact that if the people had been anything besides gay, and the dress had been refused, it wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal.
Post by
Jubilee
The fact that if the people had been anything besides gay, and the dress had been refused, it wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal.
It would have been a big deal to the people who care about that issue. Whether something is a big deal is a matter of opinion, not a matter of ethics.
Post by
173035
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Atik
As for your comment about being labeled anti-gay when you punch a gay guy who owed you $100 and refused to pay up. What version of reality do you live in? Has this actually happened to you?
Not that exactly, no.
But, I did punch a gay guy I didn't even know was gay after he took a swing at me, and was labled as anti-gay.
And a black kid threatend to bring up a hate crime on me when I threatened to beat him up. That one actually was related to some money I had loaned him, something like $50. Had nothing to do with him being black and it STILL got people call me racist.
Post by
Asylu
And a black kid threatened to bring up a hate crime on me when I threatened to beat him up. That one actually was related to some money I had loaned him, something like $50. Had nothing to do with him being black and it STILL got people call me racist.
And by doing so the kid who owed you money showed just how racist he was. Not to mention a manipulative bastard.
Every issue with gay marriage now happened in
interracial marriages
back in the
Sixties
. The same morality fights, the same biblical verses (excluding the ones from Leviticus), so on and so forth. Just as our parents and grandparents had to adapt to blacks marrying whites, we are just going to have to get used to it when two guys or girl get hitched. We aren't trying to force straights to get married to us, and we don't want churches who revile us to preform the ceremony. For the most part it boils down to joint taxes, joint health insurance policies and having the government acknowledge my partner's right to be by my side when I am unable to say so myself.
I want to set up a hypothetical situation for everyone to think about. Imagine this:
One day, for no apparent reason, all governments across the world said that marriage was illegal. That all the time, effort and love you have put into that relationship is null and void. Not only that, but to even have a close intimate romantic relationship with your lover is looked down on in disgust and revulsion. People are encouraged by churches to turn their backs on you for being "unnaturally" attached to a lover, if not out right harmed bodily. If you lover become too ill and has to be hospitalized you are not and can not be allowed to see them, even as they die. Your house can't belong to you both and if one of you dies, the other will lose it to your angry and disapproving family. Any children that you have together will go into state custody if one of you dies as the other person is an unfit parent and considered dangerously deviant based on their lifestyle. Rental companies can and will not lease to you because you are a deviant, jobs will fire you as well if they find out. Your family turns their backs on you for being with your lover. What do you do? Do you give in to societal pressure that says what you are doing is wrong, that wanting to live with, love and share your life with another human being is wrong and that you should die for it, or do you try and fight back, not giving into what others think and just live your life?
Stop and think of it that way.
It's not your soul at risk if the Christian god is real, it's ours. And as far as my god is concerned, he says that bring another life into this world of suffering is a sin and should be avoided unless impossible, I'm just obeying my religious tenets.
Post by
Sweetscot
Bleh, the store owner who refused to sell the wedding dress sounds like a lunatic...on the one hand I back up any store owner's right to refuse service...so the gals getting hitched are outta luck...but I still think that "Donna" is off her rocker.
I do find it interesting some of the ideas being tossed around about when a store owner refuses service, we've had to at my families shop before because the people were just plain rude multiple times...with a small business there comes a point where a difficult customer + any biz s/he might bring in just isn't worth dealing with their sour attitudes, particularly if they are the hang.around.all.day.buying.nothing types. I know when we're standing behind our counter we aren't worried about whether someone's gay, straight, black, white, polka-dotted, whatever...all we care about is that you are making purchases, not running off other customers, not stealing, not making us too miserable by standing around gossiping and keeping us from helping others etc.
"The Customer Is Always Right" is a great slogan, and I'm sure every business owner everywhere wants their customers to feel valued but there always has to be a line where you go from a "customer" to "a problem individual on store property" and that second person is never right (just to note on a personal level I don't think the customer in this case was being a problem but that's only my personal opinion, obviously the store owner felt differently). A store owner, no matter how deranged, can refuse service to anyone for whatever reason, but when you refuse service you open yourself to the opinions of others about how/why you did refuse service and must know that there will be "negative press" even if it's just word of mouth from the person you kicked out.
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