Gemming: +healing and/or spirit or mp/5?

Post by 140332

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Post by Izichial

Guessing that you mean Karazhan and Zul'aman with "raid level". If you feel that you can make do with the mana you have while chainpotting socket pure +healing (unless you can't stand, gather for or afford chainpotting, when you should use 9heal/2mp5 unless being severely short on spirit). A lot of decent socket bonuses are met using 9heal/2mp5 gems, though, so it can be worth using a lot of those gems as well.

A small tip; try looking at how much bonus per gem slot you get when trying to decide whether you should meet socket bonus or not. A +9healing socket bonus for some three socket legs or chests can sound much, but compare it to a glove with one socket and a +4healing socket bonus - triple that and you'd get +12healing, making it more worth per socket than the +9healing one. Just an example.

To the best of my knowledge and logic, no matter how much they change spirit it will always be profitable to have a fair balance of spirit and intellect.

Hokkai - I actually haven't done the numbers for post 2.4 but as far as gems go ('good if you need socket bonus of colour x assumed, best gems being on top) this is what I'd say about them:

18 healing = awesome
9 heal / 2mp5 = awesome if you need mana
9heal / 4spi = decent gem if you're low on spirit
9heal / 4int = decent gem for filling yellow metareqs
4int / 2mp5 = no, unless you're using one for manareg metareqs
4mp5 = no, just no

http://www.resto4life.com/2008/03/16/24-mana-regen-part-2-the-mana-regen-calculator/ and the numbers in Nabterayl's healing sticky can help you decide if you need spirit or not.

Just don't go hype spirit because of the tree aura, because it blows in 90% of all appliciable situations. Only time it didn't was 2.0.

Post by 125385

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Post by Celdhyrean

In that case, spirit is almost worthless since you are continually casting.Intensity + spirit regen changes make it far from worthless in my opinion, the choice between 9heal/2mp5 and 9heal/4spi has become much less clear-cut than it was before.

To OP, it's only you who can see wether you often run OOM (while chugging pots and having your innervate) in which case you'll need more regen, or wether it's relatively fine in which case increased healing will help more (it also decreases mana consumption by the way, but in a less clear way)

Post by cypis

+18/22 healing all the way. You really shouldn't be having any mana issues in 2.4

Also, you should be rolling LB on the main tank even if you're raid healing. And casting Healing Touch (unless it's a ns+ht combo) is a big no-no.

Post by 141947

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Post by Heckler

I've been working some numbers based on 2.4 data. With ~500 Int, 1 spirit is worth ~1 mp5 while NOT casting.

(Check out http://www.wowwiki.com/Spirit to see the equation I tested to be accurate)

Consider these points:

3/3 Intensity, this means 1 Spirit will get you 0.3 actual MP5 (casting).
Tree Aura means 1 Spirit effectively adds 0.25 +heals.
3/3 Living Spirit means every 1 Spirit you gain is actually 1.15 Spirit. (+15%)

If you only consider these points, and you weight 1 mp5 worth about 4 +heal (which I think is pretty standard), it would be fair to say that 1 Spirit is worth ~0.375 mp5 (valued for healing and regen), meaning 3 Spirit > 1 mp5 overall. Although, this would still mean 2 mp5 is the proper gem choice over 4 spirit.

The kicker is that if you consider any druid who makes smart use of innervate every 6 minutes, you'll regenerate about the same amount of mana in the 20 seconds innervate is active than you did for the 340 seconds of its cooldown when it wasn't active.

Working with my stats (~500 int, ~500 spirit) and assuming 20 of every 360 seconds would be spent innervated, 1 Spirit actually yields 0.588 mp5 (casting). When you then include the +heal buff it gives, and include the 15% stat boost from Natural Spirit, 1 Spirit increase should be valued at about 0.75 that of 1 mp5. (0.588 points for mana regen + 0.063 points for healing, then add 15% to that due to the Living Spirit addition = ~0.75)

So now the conclusion -- Assuming:

You have 3/3 Natural Spirit
You have 3/3 Intensity
You have relatively balanced Intellect and Spirit stats
You have the Innervate buff for 20 seconds out of every 6 minute period
You trust all my numbers

4 Spirit is better than 2 mp5.

Post by pelf

Nice post, Heckler. Thank you.

Post by Celdhyrean

The "problem" with innervate now is that it gives back more than a full mana bar :/

Post by Heckler

Thats a good point actually that I hadn't considered, if you don't take 'full advantage' of the 20 seconds of innervate, my numbers won't work the same, and burning regrowths so you don't fill the bar throws off the whole idea...

So.. 20 seconds at innervate speeds yields (for me) 11.7k mana, my mana bar is only 9400, which means I have to use at LEAST 2.3k mana over those 20 seconds in order to not 'waste' any regen... and thats assuming I was near empty when I hit the innervate. 2.3k mana is a quarter of my bar. In the light that it is a 'use or lose' situation, dumping out regrowths is probably ok... but I agree that would skew the numbers, and make spirit a little less useful than I had stated before, but I'll still stand by 4 Spirit > 2 mp5, 8 Spirit > 3mp5.

On a related note (which may deserve its own post), using the same model (Over a 360 second period with 20 seconds spent innervated) increasesing Intellect by 1 yields an additional 0.3mp5. This number will go down the higher your Int already is, but at ~500 Int/~500 Spirit, 1 Intellect will boost your total mana regen over a given 6 minute model period by ~0.3mp5, as well as give you 15 additional mana total. In coming up with new item values for Pawn for 2.4, I weighted Intellect and Spirit pretty heavily for these reasons...

I started with an assumption of 1 mp5 is worth 4 points, 1 +heal is worth 1 point. From there I calculated the impact on mana regen and healing cause by a 1 point increase in Intellect and Spirit, my final weights looked like this:

1 +Heal = 1 point
1 mp5 = 4 points
1 Spirit = 2.99 pts
1 Intellect = 1.31 pts

I chose 1 point for +heal and 4 points for mp5 because I've read thats pretty much the accepted values for balancing Healing output and Mana regen. However, you can change them to anything you want and Spirit will fall between the 2 somewhere, and Int will be worth a set fraction of mp5.

Any thoughts?

Post by Aris

since 2.4, i almost always take int/spi over pure mp5 now a days. Switched from the 9healing/2mp5 gems to the 9healing/4 spi gems. MP5 while casting is virtually the same between the two with the amount of spirit and intellect i have, and spirit helps with tree form and innervates, not to mention faster mana regen while not casting.

I used to focus exclusivly on mp5 the stat, and healing second. But since 2.4 changes my primary stat is now healing, spirit second, and then stamina. Intelect is good too, but i dont gem for it. It exists on all my healing gear choices, i dont see the need to gem/enchant for more of it.

A lot of the T5 and T6 encounters will require you to have a large health pool, so dont neglect stamina. You should at the very least have 10k health with full raid buffs IMO.

But for gems:
Blue sockets: 9healing/4spi
Yellow sockets: 9healing/4int
Red sockets: 18 healing (good luck on finding red sockets)

Post by mlodywn

Actually from 9heal/4spririt you gain (if you're in tree form, have Natural Spirit/Intensity and 459 intellect which is the value when you get 1mp5 from 1 spirit when out of FSR) 11.5 +heal and 0,69 mp5 when in FSR.

It may look that you get less mp5 from spirit but it does scale with intellect while mp5 doesn't.

Post by 56282

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Post by hezec

One of the great things about HoTs is that they don't overhealActually they do. The tick happens if the target is missing even 1 hp, causing overhealing. Also, I think mods count "missed" HoT ticks as overhealing which kinda makes sense since you still spent some mana for the healing that didn't actually happen since the target was at full health.

Personally I often have hundreds of thousands of overhealing after a Kara run but as said, it doesn't really matter nowadays. I don't have mana problems and apparently my healing isn't a problem either. =P

Gemming: +healing and/or spirit or mp/5?

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