DW Frost DPS - Blowing Up the Competition One Obliterate At A Time

Post by 178943

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Post by Muoumon

Hello all,

I would like to request your informed opinion.

Here is my profile

http://www.wowhead.com/?profile=eu.anachronos.nameislegion

And below the profile of my guildie

http://www.wowhead.com/?profile=eu.anachronos.melchom

He pulls second in DPS on Yogg 25 and I am below the top 5.

I use the following rotation:
IT, PS, BS, BS, OB, FR (dump), OB, OB, OB,

Am I doing anything wrong?

Thanks in advance

MM

Post by Eleazer

@Nefandum, Never remove a point from KM. CotG is much more advisable to remove from to get your point in UBA. 2/54/15 is viable for raids, but 1 point in Subversion is a greater dps increase than 1 point in CotG if you are glyphed for Icy Touch. If you are glyphed for disease than I believe CotG is better.

@Nazdear - I would say yes, but I believe GoD can still be used if raiding with an enhancement shaman who is specced into imp Windfury totem.

@Muomon - I have no idea how you are losing to your friend. Their gear is worse, they have a horrible offhand, they have worse stats, and both of you got the wrong Sigil. Your friend needs to go slow off hand and put razorice in it. She is geared for DW unholy but specced for DW Frost.

Your have several small issues that need to be fixed.

1. Get SoA at least for bosses it's a huge bonus to overall damage.

2. Enchant your gloves.

3. You are way over the expertise cap. You only need to be at 21 expertise the rest comes from talents. You could use more haste swapping your cloak enchant would help out.

4. Better weapons would definitely help, but I can promise your problem is maintaining a fluid rotation and contact time with the boss. I can almost guarantee that with your guildee's awful weapon choices and worse stats that you should be facerolling her with ease. There is no solid rotation it is about staying in contact and following the priority rotation as best you can.

5. Deathchill is a pvp talent take that point and put it in CotG you need the runic power generation to get more Frost Strikes. Do you pop Blood Tap for UBA every time it's up? What glyphs are you using?

Post by Muoumon

Hi again,

Well the profile is a bit outdated. I now have fully enchanted t9 gloves.
I am using glyphs of Frost Strike, Icy Touch and Oblitarate.
I will switch back to Sigil of Awareness and let you know.

Thanks for taking the time to troubleshoot us Eleazer.

MM

Post by 232019

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Post by Eleazer

@Spiattolo - It looks like the more numbers I see that you were correct about the Agility Meta Gem being better than the Crit Strike one. I was wrong on this call. The difference in dps while not significant is still there. It's the same as the difference between Subversion and BcB. I will make the changes to the front page.

I have some editing to do. I still want to wait till the next patch comes out to make any major adjustments.

Post by dervasavred

So, recently, my Guild wanted me to dual-spec Frost for my off spec for the H Anub fight for IIT since we lack a dedicated WF Shaman. Now, having never played Frost, I specced and Glyphed as close to correct as I could within about 5 minutes.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jZG0exAbczf0chzAofM0hxc:kas

Is the spec and Glyph set I'm running. Mind you, this is ONLY for H Anub. While I'm seeing some OK numbers, it's not anywhere close to where I think I belong on that fight as Frost.

First things first, Morbidity vs. Rav. Dead? My feeling is that my choice of Rav. Dead may be incorrect, but we'd only get about half the worth of Morbidity since we don't DC much (the only time I DC is when I have KM up and don't want to use the KM proc on FS).

So as far as rotation goes for H Anub, IT PS OB BS BS FS FS and HB when Rime+KM go off.

Without Morbidity, is it worth my time to even DnD for the Nerubian adds or just keep on with HB? Remember that on Heroic there are 4 Nerubians instead of 2.

In addition, is CotG considered the place to drop a talent in order to acquire UBA? I saw it mentioned a few posts up, but wanted to see if that was the total consensus or an answer to a specific situation.

Post by Eleazer

@dervasavred

Spec is okay, but take a point out of CotG and put it in UBA. Use Blood Tap to proc UBA as you are running to the boss and then do the same thing every time it comes off cooldown. To answer your questions and correct some misunderstandings I am going ot make a list because I like them ;p.

1. Never Use DC - Morbidity is not for frost. FS is our Runic Power filler it does a lot more damage than anything DC can think of. KM procs are either used on FS or after a Rime proc used for HB.

2. Don't ever used DnD as a dps frost - IT/PS/Pest/HB/Blood Boil. Than focus on single target while hitting Pest every time you refresh diseases HB and BB every time they are up for AoE situations. We don't use a rotation - we use a priority system.

3. If you don't use KM on FS you are losing DPS that's as simple as it gets.

4. A large portion of our dps is based on Weapon damage and without 2 good weapons your dps will not be at it's optimum.

Post by dervasavred

@dervasavred
3. If you don't use KM on FS you are losing DPS that's as simple as it gets.

4. A large portion of our dps is based on Weapon damage and without 2 good weapons your dps will not be at it's optimum.

Thanks for the clarifications and confirmations. I was just using DC while waiting for a Rime to proc with my KM, as i was under the impression that this was the maximum DPS.

And my weapons are %^&* so I know that's a problem. But hey, can't help that until something actually drops.

And yeah, I know it's a priority system: every spec uses one. I was just demonstrating that I knew what the standard opening rotation is and that I wasn't trying to DS as Frost. :D

Post by 285093

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Post by MegaVolt

Which Idol to use? Vengeful vs Awareness seems to be close. Is there a clear winner?

Post by 490094

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Post by Zzeeuuss

Hi all you dk pro's,

i was looking at my wmo from the guild raids the other night and was suprsed to see that although capped for like everything and spell capped etc that i am still missing both specials AND spells, is there some play in the caps set out or could wmo be wrong?

Here is the link :http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat/detail/267741421#damageout

it is for all bosses attempted on the night only

Post by Nystali

The misses you see in the Melee damage section are misses by your off-hand. To cap hit for your off-hand, you'd have to get to something like 27% melee hit, which is kinda silly and you probably shouldn't worry too much about.

If you look at all the other abilities, all "misses" are actually dodge/parries. Any parry was because you were attacking the boss' face (whether you had to or were just trying to get into position, sometimes it just happens). The dodges happened because you are still a few points below the expertise soft cap.

Post by Nystali

On a side note, is that how the damage really does break down for DW Frost? If so, I'm kinda disappointed that melee is so high on the list as opposed to obliterate or frost strike.

After DRW blood for a few weeks now as my dps spec, and melee damage does make up a sizable chunk of my damage, but heart strike still outdoes it. That feels a little more appropriate than just white damage (which is something more for a rogue in my opinion).

I'm also kinda disappointed that frost doesn't have some nice gimmick other than +haste to compare to hysteria or a perma-ghoul. I guess UBA is that gimmick, but seems kinda lackluster when compared to the other two. Back when I had 2h Frost as my dps spec, I didn't notice that lack of a gimmick, but now that I've dabbled in blood, it just seems to empty when I think of how I used to DPS.

Post by Zzeeuuss

nah i think the faction champs fight kinda gave the melee the boost as i was just making sure i was controlling the rouge and ccing the priest at same time, it usually breaks down as Oblit top fs then melee.

Another thing i don't really see much differance in having the insanely higher hit, im actually thinkinh of ditching the 245 + hit trink and getting an arp one, any1 else tried this?

tbh id like dw frost haste buff to somehow be applied to our specials too, look at unholy and blood they all gain directly from their own buffs dw frosts don't gain much tbh....a haste increases on white damage which is kinda un - cappable....go us!

Post by 156180

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Post by nerkel

Also, btw Razor Ice should be put on your main hand. Fallen Crusader is already known to have the same PPM regardless of which hand it's on, and RI on your MH helps keep up with the stacks. And you're still getting the frost vulnerability buff. (This is for dw)

Rune of Fallen Crusader: Still the single best rune out there with an up time around 60 percent. This rune is an absolute must on MH. There is no discussion as to MH rune. It should always be FC. .

Sooooo there's a lovely contradiction...... Anyone know which ones correct? I've always had FC on my MH and RI on my OH and everything I have read on various forums states this as well.

You are quite correct, FC on main hand and Razorice for offhand, no discussion.

Post by Eleazer

@Nystali

Nah that's not the correct breakdown. Zeus doesn't seem to be using obliterate enough, as you can see from his spreadsheet he is using Howling blast every cooldown to do Damage to both targets which is not necessary in that fight (They have a reduction of damage on aoe), and lessens his dps as a whole. Also Faction Champs really hurts your obliterate usage because you have to constantly interrupt and CC.

Standard breakdown of DW Frost dps:

Obliterate 25-27 percent
Melee 22-25 percent
FS 20-22 percent
Everything Else

@Zzeuss - the 245 trinket's stink for frost dps. Grim Troll/Darkmoon Card/Death's Verdict/Banner of Victory and about a dozen other trinkets are significantly better than it.

Snaike is incorrect. RI gets up all the time anyways, and the difference between uptime from MH to OH on FC is much larger than the RI up time and much more important.

Post by 156180

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DW Frost DPS - Blowing Up the Competition One Obliterate At A Time

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