DPS in 85-90 5 Mans

Post by Poposhka

I know i probably shouldn't be sweating this, but I feel really $%^&ty in 5-mans. I just hit 85 and bought the 372 gear and got a few 410-ish pieces from the brewery and temple. Whenever I go into groups I sit in dead last DPS and Damage wise at about 15-18%. Is this normal? On my ele shammy, it felt like i could just run up and hit chain lightning and get like +40% damage with other DPSers having 2-3 levels on me. On the hunter (BM) I feel like i'm trying to squeeze out the last drop of efficiency, for no return.

I'm following Noxxic's advice on rotation, by the way. W/ Blink strike and TotH, no real glyphs.

Post by Mileron

I had a similar problem with my BM hunter - even though I'm following the rotation to the letter (and without much lag - running less than 50ms latency) I find I'm always having to burn rotation cycles by using Steady Shot to get focus back. Otherwise I burn through it too fast to keep up a useful "rotation."

Even had one group say "wow, a BM that sucks, don't see that lately". :(

Post by Poposhka

You say "had a similar issue" Did it get better at 90 and/or as ilevel increased?

Post by Zakkhar

Bm is typical single target boss spec. Most 5 mans are aoe fest. BM sucks at aoe. If you want to shine get SV.

Post by Nooska

Even at higher gear levels BM AoE is bad, though it can be helped. I haven't checke dthe noxxic guide for their rotation / talents, but I will when I get back home in a few hours (and then post again).

TotH can help in AoE, but I've actually found it not needed as our aoe damage is heavily reliant on the pet and its attacks.

Post by Nooska

Having had a look at Noxxic, I udnerstand why you may be down on AoE, the wording "cast Multi-Shot as often as possible to maintain Beast Cleave", is misleading. In reality you only need 1 MS every 4 seconds to maintain BC, so the base AoE rotation is: ||: MS, CoS, CoS :||. This rotation is focuspositive, letting you add in GT and KC, as well as dropping traps, if there are enough mobs to warrant it. (Going by Noxxic, 5+, though I am unable to currently verify this number as I haven't done any detailed breakdowns on AoW)

Post by Zakkhar

Depending on number of targets (like 4 and below) it may even be more profitable to maintain single target prio - Multi hits really low (for both specs) - main source of SV aoe damage is Serpent sting/spread, trap and double LNL.

Post by Poposhka

On topic of BM, does Focus Fire/Frenzy seem kindof underpowered? It seems very sporadic and not really useful as a source of deeps.

Frenzy procs at 40%, making it random if i'm even going to get a full stack during boss fights, then it's a tradeoff if i want to pop the stack 20% pet haste or 30% ranged haste, plus, it seems to be nonoptimal to stack rapid fire and FF, and you supposedly want to keep Frenzy stacks when you pop BW, and not pop FF until 5 stacks.

It seems like whenever I get the 5 stacks, the fight is over, or i am about to pop BW, or my RF is already going. Almost always feels inconvenient. Any tips on how to optimize use of Frenzy/FF?

Post by Zakkhar

These skills arent balanced around bosses in 5mans and certainly not on normal bosses below lvl 90.

Post by Poposhka

Zakkhar are you referring to FF/Frenzy?

Post by Zakkhar

Yes.
Its seriously lacking in proc rates/stacking speed but on raid bosses its just an added benefit.

Post by Nooska

If anything FF is overpowered - I've made the argument previously, but the power of FF really devalues haste as a secondary stat. It would be better if less powerful and more consistent (like it was in cata).

However, if you are hit abnd exp capped you should have it up quite a fair amount of time during raid encounters (length- and buffwise) - something around a 40% uptime.

Post by snoogins187

Bm is typical single target boss spec. Most 5 mans are aoe fest. BM sucks at aoe. If you want to shine get SV.

Yeah, for AOE DPS, it's hard to beat Survival since you get Serpent Spread with your Multi-Shots, so you're getting a DOT on each and every mob within 10 yards of your primary target.

Post by 221451

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by Mileron

Earlier I had stated "I had a similar problem" with regards to DPS in groups.

After this morning's group being the third that said "wow BM dps sucks" - even on single target bosses, like the third boss in Temple of Jade Monastery I only pulled 12kdps including the pet.

And that's with following every guide and rotation.

Even doing a test of 2.5m against a dummy, I was only pulling 12k, also including the pet.

I know I won't catch up to the 87 DK in 420s doing 30k, but still, it'd be nice to rate better than less than 75% damage done compared to the other two DPS.

I guess I'll have to keep trying :)

Post by bleuwolfe

What about taking lynx rush instead of blink strike? Doesn't that give more AoE DPS, especially for BM? And stacked with bestial wrath.

noxxic may have changed the page a little, when I checked rotation just now it said "multi-shot as needed to maintain beast cleave"
noxxic also recommends dire beast as opposed to thrill of the hunt
/shrug

I don't have to cobra shot nearly as often when dire beast is up

Post by Poposhka

I probably will off-spec to sv for 5-mans, aiming for a more AOE friendly spec. I'm gonna experiment with dire beast and fervor a bit instead of toth. not sure how viable toth is for sv... Do sv hunters find themselves focus starved often?

Post by Nooska

Noxxic changed their recommendation for AoE after I wrote them.
For damage Blink Strike sucks - its an okay talent for soloing (still I would take Lynx Rush or MoC).
TotH is nice for soloing and levelling, but for damage it lags behind both DB and Fervor, with DB being the best choice for a BM for either instances or raids - Fervor could be better for soloing or PvP, depending on your usage)

Post by 221451

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

DPS in 85-90 5 Mans

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