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DOTD - Debate of The Day #52
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Post by
ElhonnaDS
Capital Punishment
= Death penalty
Corporal Punishment
= Physical punishment
And no, I don't think they should use corporal punishment in schools.
Post by
Atik
To play devil's advocate, where do you draw the line? Should a school be allowed to physically pick up an unruly child and remove them from a situation?
This is a touchy subject.
In many situations, putting a hand out to stop someone from running around can be cited as aggression or even sexual harrassent. (I know this from seeing it happen regularly at where I work.)
I beleive that in situations where it is needed, teachers should be allowed to carry/pull/restrain students. However, I do not feel they should have any right to intentionally hit a child.
By this, I mean they should not be allowed to walk up to a girl and slap her for swearing. However, they should be allowed to grab her and bring her out of the classroom if need be.
"Excessive force" is where it goes blurry to me. Generally, if you didn't do any serious physical damage, I don't think charges should be pressed because you accidently bruised the kids arm while pulling them down the hall...
Post by
MyTie
Capital Punishment
= Death penalty
Corporal Punishment
= Physical punishment
And no, I don't think they should use corporal punishment in schools.
You are assuming she meant spanking, and not killing children. I thought the conversation was a lot more unusual when we were talking about death by yardstick.
Post by
Squishalot
This is a touchy subject.
No pun intended? :D
"Excessive force" is where it goes blurry to me. Generally, if you didn't do any serious physical damage, I don't think charges should be pressed because you accidently bruised the kids arm while pulling them down the hall...
As much as I see where you're going, it's interesting, because domestic abuse laws use a 'lasting mark' tolerance to determine what serious physical damage is. A bruise is considered evidence, isn't it?
Post by
Atik
This is a touchy subject.
No pun intended? :D
"Excessive force" is where it goes blurry to me. Generally, if you didn't do any serious physical damage, I don't think charges should be pressed because you accidently bruised the kids arm while pulling them down the hall...
As much as I see where you're going, it's interesting, because domestic abuse laws use a 'lasting mark' tolerance to determine what serious physical damage is. A bruise is considered evidence, isn't it?
If the bruise came from an intentional hit, I would say so.
But, if the bruise is there because the teacher had to drag the child by the arm? I would say it's alright.
To me, "excessive force" would be more in line with the teacher breaking the kids arm, or spraining there leg, or some other injury that is... well... excessive.
Because your average kid will probably struggle, and easily cause a bruise. But it would take someone pretty hell-bent on getting the teacher in trouble to struggle so much they break their bones.
Post by
FatalHeaven
#28: Should schools be allowed to use/practice Corporal Punishment?
Corporal Punishment isn't at a peak now but it is still around. In the school district my daughter attends, when you enroll your children, the form states Corporal Punishment may be used; if you object it gives you a place to sign meaning no teacher/principal or school authority may lay a hand...ruler... whatever, on your child. In my opinion, Corporal Punishment is unjust and degrading. Schools should not have the authority regardless of a parent signing anything to punish your child to that degree.
No. I don't believe schools should be allowed to kill children.
I have corrected the term used. Although, I think there may have been a more productive way of pointing out my error.
To play devil's advocate, where do you draw the line? Should a school be allowed to physically pick up an unruly child and remove them from a situation?
To pick up/set down an unruly child or one who has instigated a fight, I believe is fine. Same with pulling two fighting children apart. But to spank, paddle, belittle.... no, not okay in my book.
depends on how corporal punishment is defined. Spanking, paddling, etc is fine up to a point(not in front of other classmates though) but degrading a child is another thing. If all the school is doing is sending the child to detention then more than likely nothing will be solved. Detention is a joke. Paddling on the other hand will put fear in a child. and that fear will stop them from be disruptive again.
I disagree. In most cases, the ones that act out enough to warrant a teacher to want to use such punishment have been there, done that. Secondly, on your point of not in public.... private paddling? I can see the lawsuits now.
*Edited 'capital' to the correct term of 'corporal'.
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
FatalHeaven
Capital Punishment
= Death penalty
Corporal Punishment
= Physical punishment
And no, I don't think they should use corporal punishment in schools.
You are assuming she meant spanking, and not killing children. I thought the conversation was a lot more unusual when we were talking about death by yardstick.
Did you honestly think I would refer to a school killing children? Really? It was an error, one I corrected.
Post by
FatalHeaven
Kids are a lot less passive these days. I think if you were to reintroduce corporal punishment in schools, you're going to find teachers getting hurt worse than kids. I certainly wouldn't have taken it lying down.
No. I don't believe schools should be allowed to kill children.
I have corrected the term used. Although, I think there may have been a more productive way of pointing out my error.
I don't.
Really? Cause just saying "Fatal, the term used means
this
, but I think you meant
this
". Isn't better than "No. I don't believe schools should be allowed to kill children."
I guess in my family, politely saying something was always better than being a smart alec.
Post by
204878
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
FatalHeaven
I think you're experiencing a glitch in your humour detection subroutines.
I don't find humor in being ... rude... for lack of a better word that won't get me modded.
Post by
asakawa
I think we should lighten up before I send you all to Ashelia for a spanking
!
:P
Nobody should hit children. Ever.
If I
did
believe that hitting children was a positive way to discipline them I still wouldn't think that it should ever be the responsibility or right for someone other than the parent to carry it out.
Teachers and parents should be in contact enough that discipline isn't a discrete thing, done separately either in school or at home, but the child's actions in school are also discussed/disciplined/punished at home.
I've said before that my wife is a teacher. She's had training in how to subdue an unruly child in an appropriate way (and has had to use that training several times in her career when faced with kids doing things like throwing chairs at her or others). I think this is a good thing. Teachers need support and training because parents put them
in loco parentis
without ever really considering the massive responsibility that is and the strength it requires to take it on.(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##
Post by
Adamsm
Schools shouldn't, but parents should be allowed to spank without it becoming a massive news crisis and threats of charges being made.
Post by
woohaa
I don't believe in "beating children." However, i was raised in a household where we got spanked if we did something bad.
I think there's a very fine line that you cannot cross when you spank your kids and as long as you never cross it i'm perfectly fine with it. HOWEVER, a teacher or anyone other then the parents for that matter should never be allowed to touch someone else's child.
and @fatal i hate to say it cause i've made my fair share of typos/mistakes on this forum but that was relatively mild as far as sarcastic comments. I think you got off pretty lucky with that one lol.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
168916
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
I don't find humor in being ... rude...I'm sorry. It was meant as a joke. I had no idea you would take it as you did. Since I didn't know how you would take it, I shouldn't have made the joke. I will not joke around with you in the future. My mistake.I have corrected the term used.I don't believe schools should use corporal punishment, not because I don't believe corporal punishment should be used, but because I believe it is parent's responsibility to discipline children, not schools or government or anyone else. That said, I find it disgusting how many parents don't discipline their kids. Not only do they not use corporal punishment, but they don't use any punishment whatsoever. I believe a lack of discipline is the problem with our kids poor education, high crime rates, lack of solid identity, etc. Kids need to be given boundaries and a consistent and appropriate loving hand. Sometimes tough love needs to enter that equation.
Post by
asakawa
Nobody should hit children. Ever.
What I find mainly interesting about this topic is the malleability of opinion - in that while not smacking kids is certainly the modern norm, for great swaths of human history such thinking would have been considered misguided or even cruel. So while I'm against corporal punishment myself, I'm too objective not to be mindful of the possibility that I'm essentially agreeing with what's in fashion.
When I was little I was smacked when I did something bad. When we were a bit older we (my siblings and I) were sat down and our parents apologised for doing that. They'd felt bad about it ever since and said that they were young parents who just didn't know any better and reverted to what they knew from their own experiences growing up.
I feel quite secure in my opinion that people should hit kids because I'm also of the opinion that people shouldn't hit people. I don't necessarily feel that parents should be banned from administering sensible, considered corporal punishment or that they should be punished themselves for doing it but I'd have to admit that I would have a lower opinion of someone who resorted to that with their child than someone who didn't.
I certainly don't think that teachers should ever be allowed, expected or encouraged to administer corporal punishment, ever. It's not fair on the child, the parent or the teacher!
Post by
FatalHeaven
Schools shouldn't, but parents should be allowed to spank without it becoming a massive news crisis and threats of charges being made.
Agreed. With my daughter in particular, she is pretty well behaved and has been for as long as I've been in her life, since she was one. There is never a need to punish her with spanking. More often than not, should she become unruly which does happen even if rare, words work. Would I spank her if it was needed? Probably, but it's not. I can talk her out of whatever mood she is in rather easily.
Post by
gamerunknown
With that said, I am in favor of capitol punishment.
The nuclear option?
Also, I've posted
this meta-analysis
a few times before.
Oh and I forgot on the subject of GM, what do you guys think of
this
and
this
?
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