Do you believe in God?

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Post by 588688

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by asakawa

Post by Skreeran

Post by Kangi

Yes.

Post by Izichial

Well, to be fair, if agnosticism is the belief that the answer is not simply unknown to you but unknowable then one could believe that the existence of a deity is entirely knowable. This would be separate to the actual belief for or against the existence of a deity.I generally like to seperate gnosticism and theism into knowledge and belief, respectively. I am agnostic in the sense that I do not know whether or not there is a god or gods, but I am atheistic in the sense that I lack belief as well.

You could also have a gnostic theist who knows that their is a god/gods (who has no doubt), or an agnostic theist who believes in them but does not profess to know (rather as someone can believe in extraterrestrial life without knowing for certain). With this method, you could theoretically have a gnostic atheist as well (someone who knows there is no god), but I haven't seen any of those.

I'm with Skreeran on this one. Mostly from having known people who've been entirely serious when they've specifically claimed they've known God to exist, as opposed to "merely" believing God to exist*. Also like Skreeran I'm "agnostic in the sense that I do not know whether or not there is a god or gods, but I am atheistic in the sense that I lack belief as well". I don't believe in any god or gods, but neither do I claim to know better.

*if anyone cares I know those people to have been raised in a strict Muslim family and personally consider that specific claim to be bull^&*! and/or misguided. I have all the respect in the world for people who merely claim to believe in a specific theology and live thereafter in all modesty (i.e. moderates of any religion) but knowing is impossible. If it weren't a) belief would be pointless distinction and b) we'd all be religious.

Also, why have I never seen Kangi before? oO

Post by Monday

*if anyone cares I know those people to have been raised in a strict Muslim family and personally consider that specific claim to be bull^&*! and/or misguided. I have all the respect in the world for people who merely claim to believe in a specific theology and live thereafter in all modesty (i.e. moderates of any religion) but knowing is impossible. If it weren't a) belief would be pointless distinction and b) we'd all be religious.

Or, of course, they were merely expressing their belief to be so strong that it was almost indistinguishable from knowing.

Such as myself. I may not be 100% scientifically certain, but based on my own experiences, I can say with complete confidence that I know God to exist and to love me as His child.

Post by Izichial

Such as myself. I may not be 100% scientifically certain, but based on my own experiences, I can say with complete confidence that I know God to exist and to love me as His child.

Still belief, as far as most care to determine it to be. I suppose in this case it'd be more specific to distinguish between absolute belief and absolute knowledge (though taken literally it's sort of an oxymoron taking into account f.e. metaphysical nihilism). Like I said, I have no problem with any claim of belonging to the former, but the latter is simply impossible to my point of view.

If I believed otherwise I'd be happier I think, but things are as they are.

Post by Magician22773

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It is probably a bad idea to post this, but I am really don't have time to edit it out.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Kangi##DELIM##Then allow me to edit it for you.

If you feel it's a bad idea to post something, it's advisable to not post it. In this case it was too inflammatory for this thread.

Post by Magician22773

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It is probably a bad idea to post this, but I am really don't have time to edit it out.

But posting that you "despise" the Christian God isn't inflammatory at all?

So, if I state that I find all "gods"... Muslims, Buddhist, Tree Goddess, or whatever anyone with any other religious affiliation other than my own to be despicable to me, and I sure hope that their choice of belief isn't the right one...that would be OK?

I think it was quite obvious that my post was meant to be humor....in fact, it was a copy and paste from a pretty well known internet parable about how Einstein supposedly "proved" to a professor that God did exist...

And it was quite obvious to me that Sold's post...like nearly every other post he makes, was him intentionally $%^&ting at the feet of any Christian that might read this thread. In fact, he posted the exact same thing that was left up in my post, and was seemingly the reasoning for your moderation.

So I guess its OK for his inflammatory post that was "probably a bad idea" to be left up? Or perhaps you could go edit his post for him as well.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Kangi##DELIM##One posting that they dislike a particular concept of God is not a direct attack on those who believe in it. People are free to state their opinions, for this is what this thread is about. If it degenerates into outright attacks on certain groups of believers then it will be handled.

The parable you stated simply doesn't have a place in this thread, for "humor" aside it is inflammatory in nature and direct attacks are not going to be permitted here. I'd rather err on the safe side given the nature of this thread, and you should have, yourself. But now that you're making it clear that you are directly attacking a poster, you will be on thin ice for the remainder of this thread.

Post by MyTie

This will end well...

It will if nobody here get's their panties in a bunch of other peoples opinions on religion. On topic, I'm agnostic, I despise the christian god anyway so I hope, if there is a deity, he ain't it.

Huh, I thought the last line of my post was probably a bad idea to add after posting it, but didn't have time to edit it out. Was worried all day that a bunch of users had gotten mad at me, fortunately, nobody cared. Bravo wowhead community, bravo.

Anyway, I don't see how anyone can be anything but agnostic, when none of us can be 100% certain whether or not any religion is right, or any deity exists. You can lean on one side, but if you can't prove without a shadow of a doubt that you're beliefs, atheist or religious, are right, than what's the point?

Interesting that you thought people would be mad at you for your personal beliefs about God. They aren't an insult. Usually it is the insults that get to people. Saying that you despise the Christian God is perfectly within the bounds of proper social ediciate. If you were to say you despise the Christian God, and then go on to compare Him to Hitler, or Voldemort, or a unicorn, or something asinine like that, then you could expect a reaction. But, your personal views on the matter are yours. Just, put yourself in other's shoes, to gauge what kind of reaction to expect....
I didn't see what was edited out. I just have to say that you cannot expect equality here. If you want to discuss a pretty effective way of dealing with the moderation here, well, yourtie@live.com(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Squishalot##DELIM##MyTie - if you want to take issue with moderator action, you know where to reply. This is not an appropriate forum to air your grievances.

Post by Magician22773

People are free to state their opinions, for this is what this thread is about.

Really, because I read the title "Do you believe in God", as a question, not a solicitation of an opinion.

Prior to Sold's post, that is what we had. People....yourself included, that were answering that question. A few even offered their reasoning behind why they believe or disbelieve, in God, and that would seem to be acceptable as well.

But specifically stating that you "despise" one religions God, and only one after stating the answer "I am agnostic", is in fact, an attack...or at the least, an unnecessary, and inflammatory, opinion.

I too have opinions on all other religions, and none of them are exactly flattering, however this thread did not seem to be the place to discuss them, so I simply provided my answer to the OP's question. Now, if this topic is an appropriate place for me to express those opinions, then I would be more than happy to, assuming I have the same leeway as Sold does?

Post by Squishalot

Magician, if I can try and illustrate what Kangi is talking about, in the context of an analogy...

We occasionally hear about the Muslim population going into an uproar because of a caricature of the Prophet. The reason why we might suggest that the caricature is OK is because it's an opinion (which could possibly be construed as an attack) on the ideals of a religion - it's not an attack on individuals. By contrast, the follow-up Muslim uproar and death threats against the artist would not be OK, because it's not just an arbitrary opinion, it's an attack on a person for holding an opinion.

I don't believe that this thread is simply a 'yes/no' question, as you suggest, as with any other thread on the Off-Topic forum. As asakawa put it here, our goals are to facilitate genuine discussion. A lot of other people here have put forward their opinions too, and I don't think it would be fair to say that they are 'unnecessary'.

Note: I have no idea what you wrote before it was edited out, because Kangi didn't keep a copy of it somewhere.(##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Kangi##DELIM##I did. =p

Post by Magician22773

Google Einstein's proof God exists...its pretty easy to find, as it has been circulating on the internet for years.

I realize that Kangi is not a "regular" in these types of discussions that we all to often have here in OT. You however know exactly how I will react in these types of situations. I have, and had, no issue with the OP's topic...Do You Believe in God...and I offered no opinion of any of the posts prior to Sold's flame.

I do not respect others beliefs, or lack thereof...I am, by definition, a bigot...(we have established that many times before)...if by believing that my God is the one and only true God, and by not conceding in any way that any other god is worthy of praise or respect, yes I am a bigot. And I will proudly proclaim that bigotry in the face of anyone, because that is my God's commandment, Thou shall have no other God's before me.... period.

However, that was not (as I saw it), what this topic was about. It was not about "How do you feel about others beliefs?", so I kept my opinion to myself. Sold decided he needed to not only answer the question, but offer his inflammatory opinion of my God, and as I have on plenty of other occasions in this forum, I offered my inflammatory opinion of what I think of someone that disrespects my beliefs. I actually believe I did it in a way that was humorous enough that it should not have been considered out of line, especially for an OT discussion. Believe me, you know I have no problem with letting someone know how I really feel in these situations, but I held back quite a bit I think.

As for your analogy...perhaps you should take note that in nearly all of the occasions that the Muslims get bent about a cartoon, that cartoon gets removed, and they stop blowing stuff up.......just a thought.

Post by MyTie

Post by Magician22773

As for your analogy...perhaps you should take note that in nearly all of the occasions that the Muslims get bent about a cartoon, that cartoon gets removed, and they stop blowing stuff up.......just a thought.You should probably reword this to make it sound less like an indirect threat.

Google Einstein's proof God exists...If this is the one I'm thinking of, I don't think it is accurately attributed to Einstein, and the whole thing is one of those "the professor dropped the chalk, visibly shaken" stories, that set up a strawman punching bag, with a cliche villain, and a know-it-all hero. Those are almost as bad as the ones where someone types something idiotic, but pretends to be on one side of a debate. I tend to not use these, especially in a religious debate, as examples to persuade my fellow debaters.

Well,,,I think we all know I'm not intending to bomb anything....but...just in case..OK

If you want a simple way to return this discussion back on topic..how about removing the post(s) that (I think) were quite obviously insulting to me, just as you removed the post that was deemed insulting to Sold. Seems like a simple enough request, and a fair one at that.

As for the Einstein deal...yes...it has been debunked many years ago.

I do believe that it provides a humorous way of explaining faith in anything, not just God.

If you cant touch, see, smell, hear, of feel God...then he must not exist.

then...

If you cannot touch, see, smell, hear, of feel your brain, then that must not exist either. (##RESPBREAK##)8##DELIM##Squishalot##DELIM##The 'threat' is that you're going to be inflammatory unless we take down Soldrethar's comment. I don't believe it has broken forum rules. If you disagree with Kangi and myself, as always, feel free to email . As I have said earlier in this thread, this forum is not the correct place to air your grievances with how we moderate.

In the context that your post was provided, as a direct reply quote to another member of the forum, rather than as an anecdote, it is clearly a personal attack on another forum user, which will not be tolerated. As an anecdote, MyTie has brought it back on topic, so I will leave it there.

Post by MyTie

If you cant touch, see, smell, hear, of feel God...then he must not exist.

then...

If you cannot touch, see, smell, hear, of feel your brain, then that must not exist either.

You can, though. You can weigh your head, measure it, and xray it, and even put a camera into your head, and put a small hole in your skull and look at it. Plus, you are touching it at all times, since it is a part of you. You can feel pain in it. It's nothing like God at all.

It's a lame argument, and it works against you because it is so pretentious while being so obviously flawed, never-mind that the whole thing is incorrectly attributed in the first place. There is no need for these "gotcha" stories. You don't put a finger in anyone's eye, except your own, and indirectly everyone whom is on the religious side of the debate. Every time I see that "Einstein" story I cringe, because it reaffirms all the stereotypes I argue don't exist.

Post by PTsICU

Atheist.

Started questioning my religion in my 30's. Went from a life long Southern Baptist, to a deist, finally to an atheist as I inch towards the half century mark. It was a long process that led me here. Started with the questions and doubts, followed by studying and actually reading the scripture. From there, it was pretty obvious for me that I could no longer believe.

Post by UnholyDeciever

So, if you look at religious debates as a way to sway people, then yes, they are pointless. If you look at them as a way to sharpen your communication skills, and learn how to effectively rebuke criticism, then there is no venue more appropriate.

I'll say I really like how you don't take the arguments / whatnot in a negative way and instead use it to help improve yourself.

Post by Rankkor

/frowns.

Didn't took long for the thread to go sour.

This is my cue to walk out.

Post by Jubilee

Yes. No. Kind of. Sort of. Maybe. Probably. I don't know.