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Do you believe in God?
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Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Nathanyal
If they have a legitimate warrant, then they do have a reason for you to get out of your house. If you don't listen then that would force them to force you out.
Post by
b4xx
I don't understand how anyone can think that sending someone to burn for all eternity, or destroy their soul (aka their consciousness), simply for not believing in him, or not worshiping him, or whatever, is anything other than tyrannical. How is that okay in any way shape or form? How can anyone be okay with that? I'm not like trying to get you or anyone else to see differently, because I think that's futile, I just don't understand how someone can find nothing immoral about that.
I think that MyTie addressed this already, but you have the wrong point of view.
God has given
you
the chance to be saved from death and live forever. However, He has given you the free will you have, so He's not going to force you accept his gift. You can choose death, if that's what you wish.
However, God loves you and wishes you to love Him, so you could live forever.
Post by
asakawa
I'm not comfortable with the idea of original sin and the idea of us all being sinners in need of being saved, from birth. In anything other than strictly religious (perhaps strictly Christian though I don't know enough about the other major religions to be so specific) terms I don't think anyone would be willing to call a newborn baby a sinner. People might debate the virtue of going back in tome to kill Hitler as a youth (sorry for the Godwin) and so on.
The god made all humans sinful by his own judgement. God is omnipotent so presumably the power is theirs to simply forgive Adam's mistake rather than curse an entire race, but no - we are to be happy for the opportunity to be saved when we had no hand in our damnation. This is all rather capricious, no?
Post by
gamerunknown
The Bible. It is God's word on what is good. He is a better authority than your opinion on what is good and what is not, since He is totally good.
Is it good to stone women to death if they are not virgins on their wedding day?
We become much smaller than we originally believed and are subject to the wills and whims of another. This can be hard to accept for people born into a world where we are raised with an opposite mindset.
Is this argument compatible with teleology? That God designed a universe explicitly for human habitation, with their existence entirely confined so far to a galaxy hostile to human life, with humans only breaching the confines of a planet which is 70% water in the past century? Is God's ineffability compatible with a belief that He has a purpose for one in mind?
Personally, I feel that a secular viewpoint is more likely to engender humility. We are distant cousins with all life on Earth, have been on Earth for a fraction of its existence and have had language for an even smaller portion of that time. Our own individual lives are insignificant in our evolutionary history, all of which occurs on a pale blue dot which would be invisible to the naked eye from Neptune, as far as I'm aware.
Post by
Gone
@Gamer
Who the Hell said God only made this universe for human beings? He could have created other life out there.
Post by
Adamsm
Mainly because so many people are so fond of the line 'God created us in His image'.
Post by
Gone
Idk how that changes matters. Just because he created us in his image does not mean that there isn't other life out there. There could be other human life just like us, also created in his image.
Post by
Skreeran
Idk how that changes matters. Just because he created us in his image does not mean that there isn't other life out there. There could be other human life just like us, also created in his image.
@Game
Who the Hell said God only made this universe for human beings? He could have created other life out there.
other life
other human life
It seems like you contradicted yourself
Post by
b4xx
I'm not comfortable with the idea of original sin and the idea of us all being sinners in need of being saved, from birth. In anything other than strictly religious (perhaps strictly Christian though I don't know enough about the other major religions to be so specific) terms I don't think anyone would be willing to call a newborn baby a sinner. People might debate the virtue of going back in tome to kill Hitler as a youth (sorry for the Godwin) and so on.
The god made all humans sinful by his own judgement. God is omnipotent so presumably the power is theirs to simply forgive Adam's mistake rather than curse an entire race, but no - we are to be happy for the opportunity to be saved when we had no hand in our damnation. This is all rather capricious, no?
Indeed, and that's (basically) what He did. He sent Jesus to die for our sins, thus forgiving us (on one condition; He requires love).
Of course He could've just said: "Yo chill hommies, Ima let ya
all
in, no worriez", but He didn't. He did as He saw fit.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
Indeed, and that's (basically) what He did. He sent Jesus to die for our sins, thus forgiving us (on one condition; He requires love).
Of course He could've just said: "Yo chill hommies, Ima let ya
all
in, no worriez", but He didn't. He did as He saw fit.
Which, if it's the omnipotent god of all things, is their right to do since no one can oppose them but why on earth would this make me
love
it?
The situation was engineered by them. They say that they gave their son for our sins but they had the power to make that human sacrifice not a requirement and neglected to take the opportunity.
A king rules a realm. He says that the people living in his realm are wicked so he kills the prince (the king's only son) and then tells his people "I killed my son to allow me to forgive you for being wicked . You can all come and have cake in my castle if you kiss my feet and thank me for doing that for you."
The only addition to this story is that the king created the people and made them wicked in the first place.
I understand this is a slightly ridiculous retelling of things but I hope it makes my point. If these are the actions of an omnipotent god then that god is capricious at best, malicious possibly. At the end of the day though, I didn't ask for anyone to die for me. I do not agree with human sacrifice and I will not worship the god that is described in the Christian Bible. If I'm wrong in disbelieving then I imagine there will be consequences but I could not bring myself to feel differently about this and, if it's all true, then the god made me this way.
Post by
Gone
Idk how that changes matters. Just because he created us in his image does not mean that there isn't other life out there. There could be other human life just like us, also created in his image.
@Game
Who the Hell said God only made this universe for human beings? He could have created other life out there.
other life
other human life
It seems like you contradicted yourself
No I didn't. There could be other life out there, intelligent life or otherwise (animals, etc.) and it's also possible that there could be other human life out there as well. I never said there was
just
other human life out there, so I never contradicted myself, I made two separate and entirely possible statements, which are not mutually exclusive.
Post by
Levarus
no he never talked to me so no (maybe he's quiet, so yes too)
Post by
MyTie
Is it good to stone women to death if they are not virgins on their wedding day?
No, gamer, it isn't. Now, if I were to go out and stone a woman to death, in the name of gamerunknown, how would you feel about that? That just goes to prove that gamerunknown has some evil motives. Amirite?
Post by
Skreeran
A king rules a realm. He says that the people living in his realm are wicked so he kills the prince (the king's only son) and then tells his people "I killed my son to allow me to forgive you for being wicked . You can all come and have cake in my castle if you kiss my feet and thank me for doing that for you."
The only addition to this story is that the king created the people and made them wicked in the first place.
I understand this is a slightly ridiculous retelling of things but I hope it makes my point. If these are the actions of an omnipotent god then that god is capricious at best, malicious possibly. At the end of the day though, I didn't ask for anyone to die for me. I do not agree with human sacrifice and I will not worship the god that is described in the Christian Bible. If I'm wrong in disbelieving then I imagine there will be consequences but I could not bring myself to feel differently about this and, if it's all true, then the god made me this way.In addition, there's the matter that his son came back to life, and knew he was going to come back to life when he died. I don't see how death is meaningful at all if they just come back to life after a few days. That's what made death meaningless in Dragonball Z too.
Post by
Orranis
and made them wicked in the first place.
There's the problem with your analogy. Christians don't believe that God made humanity wicked.
Post by
b4xx
I don't understand how anyone can think that sending someone to burn for all eternity, or destroy their soul (aka their consciousness), simply for not believing in him, or not worshiping him, or whatever, is anything other than tyrannical. How is that okay in any way shape or form? How can anyone be okay with that? I'm not like trying to get you or anyone else to see differently, because I think that's futile, I just don't understand how someone can find nothing immoral about that.
I think that MyTie addressed this already, but you have the wrong point of view.
God has given
you
the chance to be saved from death and live forever. However, He has given you the free will you have, so He's not going to force you accept his gift. You can choose death, if that's what you wish.
However, God loves you and wishes you to love Him, so you could live forever.
Please rationalize to me why you think someone should burn or be destroyed because they don't believe in or worship god, why is that a suitable punishment, hell, why should there even be a punishment? Please, rationalize it, why is not believing in/not worshiping him such a terrible crime? Why is it even a crime to begin with? Why? Is anyone being hurt by it? What is the point? What is the reason? And don't say "because he's god and he can do whatever he wants" because I'm not going to accept such an argument, I hate the "because I said so" justification with every fiber of my being.
This whole thing boils down to sin. Humans are sinners, and the wage of sin is death.
However, you are offered the chance to be saved from this fate through Jesus. Simple as that.
Indeed, and that's (basically) what He did. He sent Jesus to die for our sins, thus forgiving us (on one condition; He requires love).
Of course He could've just said: "Yo chill hommies, Ima let ya
all
in, no worriez", but He didn't. He did as He saw fit.
Which, if it's the omnipotent god of all things, is their right to do since no one can oppose them but why on earth would this make me
love
it?
The situation was engineered by them. They say that they gave their son for our sins but they had the power to make that human sacrifice not a requirement and neglected to take the opportunity.
A king rules a realm. He says that the people living in his realm are wicked so he kills the prince (the king's only son) and then tells his people "I killed my son to allow me to forgive you for being wicked . You can all come and have cake in my castle if you kiss my feet and thank me for doing that for you."
The only addition to this story is that the king created the people and made them wicked in the first place.
I understand this is a slightly ridiculous retelling of things but I hope it makes my point. If these are the actions of an omnipotent god then that god is capricious at best, malicious possibly. At the end of the day though, I didn't ask for anyone to die for me. I do not agree with human sacrifice and I will not worship the god that is described in the Christian Bible. If I'm wrong in disbelieving then I imagine there will be consequences but I could not bring myself to feel differently about this and, if it's all true, then the god made me this way.
You love your parents don't you? Like one loves one's parents, God wishes to be loved by His children.
God didn't create us as wicked beings. He gave us the free will, so we could choose whether we want to be wicked or not. And yeah, that analogy is quite biased. But I get your point.
At the end of the day, it's your choice that matters.
Post by
asakawa
The god made all humans though. When you're dealing with an omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent creator then you have someone who knows precisely how things will play out when they start the ball rolling? When the god made Adam and Eve and a forbidden tree and a serpent they knew where that was going. If they did not then they are not omniscient.
When I said "made them wicked" I meant that as "created them wicked" rather than "forced them to be wicked". However, if you don't like that line of reasoning then that's fine as it's an aside to my main point.
Also, why have a forbidden tree in the first place? In theatre this would be known as Checkhov's Gun - you don't put a gun in the first act if it isn't intended to go off in act 3.
Post by
Adamsm
He knew that there was a chance they would take the Fruit, and He also knew that there was a chance that they would not: But it was all about Free Will and the right every mortal has to make a choice.
And it was a good analogy: By Free Will, everyone has the choice to be Good or Evil, it's all about the choices that are made, and just like how there are laws for when you do bad things, the same happens from God.
On a side note, when speaking of the Christian/Catholic God, whether you believe in It or not, things referring to It should be capitalized.
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