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Christianity - The Horse that Refuses to Die
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Post by
ExDementia
Actually, thank you both ExDementia and HoleofArt for completely and utterly proving my point about the Us vs Them mentality.
Look, the fact is, well it's nice to lay all the problems at the feet of religion...it's a bad move; yes, extremists of the different religions have caused $%^&, pain and suffering all across the world....but a lot people just want to be left in peace without someone, whether they are a believer or not, getting their face and telling them they are wrong and idiots for believing/disbelieving.
I could care less that one of my neighbors is a member of Islam; the guy is the nicest person you'll ever meet. I've seen a complete and utter &*!@#$ during my days in high school, and the fact that he was a Christian meant nothing to his bullying and stupidity.
But meh, people find faults with every single thing out there, so carry on, carry on, cause nothing really matters, any way the wind blows. Enjoy the remainder of the 'discussion' or whatever you want to call it at this point.
Thank you for completely missing my point, or ignoring it.
I'll say it one last *!@#ing time since you can't seem to understand it.
I knowingly acknowledge the fact that there are many other factors that can cause a war. I am merely talking about the religious reasons because this is a thread about religion. If it were a thread about racism I would be saying how many wars would never happen because of racism.
Also, yes, not every religious person is an extremest. I have stated this already in this thread.
You are completely bi-passing my points, and arguing things I'm not even saying.
Post by
Gone
Actually, thank you both ExDementia and HoleofArt for completely and utterly proving my point about the Us vs Them mentality.
Look, the fact is, well it's nice to lay all the problems at the feet of religion...it's a bad move; yes, extremists of the different religions have caused $%^&, pain and suffering all across the world....but a lot people just want to be left in peace without someone, whether they are a believer or not, getting their face and telling them they are wrong and idiots for believing/disbelieving.
I could care less that one of my neighbors is a member of Islam; the guy is the nicest person you'll ever meet. I've seen a complete and utter &*!@#$ during my days in high school, and the fact that he was a Christian meant nothing to his bullying and stupidity.
But meh, people find faults with every single thing out there, so carry on, carry on, cause nothing really matters, any way the wind blows. Enjoy the remainder of the 'discussion' or whatever you want to call it at this point.
Thank you for completely missing my point, or ignoring it.
I'll say it one last *!@#ing time since you can't seem to understand it.
I knowingly acknowledge the fact that there are many other factors that can cause a war. I am merely talking about the religious reasons because this is a thread about religion. If it were a thread about racism I would be saying how many wars would never happen because of racism.
Also, yes, not every religious person is an extremest. I have stated this already in this thread.
You are completely bi-passing my points, and arguing things I'm not even saying.
And you completley missed the point that pretty much any war you claim was caused by religion could have just as easily been caused by anything els, and most likley would have happened anyway abent religion.
Post by
Adamsm
Technically, I wasn't arguing with anyone in that last point.
Look, I don't actually care all that much: I just dislike threads where it's about taunting those who believe in something. You haven't done it ExDementia; but other users have, on both sides of the 'discussion'.
And you were the one who linked that picture of the Towers with the tagline about how it would never have happened without religion...and I had to tweak your nose about it. I apologize for that.
Post by
ExDementia
And you completley missed the point that pretty much any war you claim was caused by religion could have just as easily been caused by anything els, and most likley would have happened anyway abent religion.
I did not miss that at all, in fact I was arguing that exact point. See below:
(Please read it this time, or don't argue. No disrespect implied, it's just tiring.)
I firmly disagree. Also, yes, we agree that not all wars are started because of religion. You can stop repeating that now.
You are effectively saying that a people with less reasons to go to war (or none in many cases), will go to war anyway. That's like saying the holocaust would have still happened if Hitler wasn't racist.
Yes, he was a racist; and it would have happened whether or not he believed in a higher power. And sorry, but I don't believe in the goodness of humanity and that religion is a poison; humanity is the poison and has been for a long time. There are good ones sure, but not enough of them. Even the heroes can end up as just as bad.
That is not at all what I said. I agreed with you and that people are #$%^ed up.
Re-read what I said about Hitler. You are saying that one factor won't change anything, and war would continue on as usual.
If Hitler wasn't racist, would the holocaust have happened?
If Hitler wasn't racist, would the holocaust have happened?Why not; happened before in the past.
So you are saying that if Hitler wasn't racist, he would have wanted to go out and exterminate 6 million people for some other reason? AND he would be able to get the support of a country behind him?
What would be the reason if race wasn't a factor? The color of their hair? Religion? The type of shoes they wear?
If Hitler wasn't racist, would the holocaust have happened?Why not; happened before in the past.
So you are saying that if Hitler wasn't racist, he would have wanted to go out and exterminate 6 million people for some other reason? AND he would be able to get the support of a country behind him?
What would be the reason if race wasn't a factor? The color of their hair? Religion? The type of shoes they wear?
Patriotic furor get's a lot of people to do things they would never consider doing before. And it still involves Us vs Them at it's most basic: Could even be something as simple as
"The people of Jewish descent are the reason for the bad times; take all their stuff, and if they resist, kill them!"
Greed is also a good motivator after all. And it's easy to blame everyone for the actions of a few bad apples(which is the entire point of this thread at this point).
People of Jewish decent = Jews
That is still racism.
(Still waiting on an answer to this)
Post by
Gone
Honestly I think this thread should have died yesterday, its not going anywhere and I said from the begining debates like this almost always get ugly at one point.
Post by
ExDementia
Technically, I wasn't arguing with anyone in that last point.
Look, I don't actually care all that much: I just dislike threads where it's about taunting those who believe in something. You haven't done it ExDementia; but other users have, on both sides of the 'discussion'.
And you were the one who linked that picture of the Towers with the tagline about how it would never have happened without religion...and I had to tweak your nose about it. I apologize for that.
No apologies needed, my friend :)
Post by
HoleofArt
I ignored your first post because like I said I a lot of what you are saying is anti religious propaganda,
No, it isn't. Please show me where I am
that are my own words.
I am not saying that all wars are caused by religion. I'm saying many have been, and had religion not taken such a strong hold on society, those wars would have not happened.
Post by
Adamsm
No apologies needed, my friend :)Groovy.
Post by
Monday
I ignored your first post because like I said I a lot of what you are saying is anti religious propaganda,
No, it isn't. Please show me where I am
that are my own words.
I am not saying that all wars are caused by religion. I'm saying many have been, and had religion not taken such a strong hold on society, those wars would have not happened.
And perhaps other wars would have taken their place. Maybe even worse. Nuclear holocaust. Who knows what would happen if religion didn't exist, as it is one of the main bases for morals*
*Note, I am not saying it is the only base for morals, as one can have morals without being religious. However, religion keeps people moral, most of the time.
But meh, people find faults with every single thing out there, so carry on, carry on, cause nothing really matters, any way the wind blows. Enjoy the remainder of the 'discussion' or whatever you want to call it at this point.
Meh. In the end it just ends up with the atheists making jokes about the religious people, which is why I never actually argue (except to clear up misconceptions about myself and my religion).
Post by
Heckler
religion keeps people moral, most of the time.
This makes religion
in general
sound manipulative and silly. If you can write a book and cause people to behave a certain way (in this case, morally), doesn't it make sense that you could do that for
any
desired behavior (unless of course the propensity for moral behavior is already present, and religion just helps bring it out -- but if that's the case, is it even necessary)? Statements like this don't do much for the religious side of the debate IMO.
Post by
Monday
religion keeps people moral, most of the time.
This makes religion
in general
sound manipulative and silly. If you can write a book and cause people to behave a certain way (in this case, morally), doesn't it make sense that you could do that for
any
desired behavior (unless of course the propensity for moral behavior is already present, and religion just helps bring it out -- but if that's the case, is it even necessary)? Statements like this don't do much for the religious side of the debate IMO.
I don't particularly care for defending any religion but my own. Most of them are incredibly manipulative and silly.
Post by
ExDementia
I don't particularly care for defending any religion but my own. Most of them are incredibly manipulative and silly.
I hate to be that guy but... What makes yours any different?
Post by
Monday
I don't particularly care for defending any religion but my own. Most of them are incredibly manipulative and silly.
I hate to be that guy but... What makes yours any different?
What would you like me to say that wouldn't make me look like an ass? I could give you reasons, and you'll pick them apart all day because you aren't a believer. There is exactly no point in going over this.
Also, Heckler, you're embodying the whole "Us vs Them" that Adams is talking about.
Post by
HoleofArt
I don't particularly care for defending any religion but my own. Most of them are incredibly manipulative and silly.
I hate to be that guy but... What makes yours any different?
What would you like me to say that wouldn't make me look like an ass? I could give you reasons
Every religion can. That's why they have followers, afterall. There really isn't anything unique that makes a certain religion more believable in my opinion. Barring the obvious, there just really isn't.
Post by
Monday
I don't particularly care for defending any religion but my own. Most of them are incredibly manipulative and silly.
I hate to be that guy but... What makes yours any different?
What would you like me to say that wouldn't make me look like an ass? I could give you reasons
Every religion can. That's why they have followers, afterall. There really isn't anything unique that makes a certain religion more believable in my opinion. Barring the obvious, there just really isn't.
and you'll pick them apart all day because you aren't a believer.
My opinion, your opinion, I don't give a !@#$.
Post by
HoleofArt
I'm not picking anything apart. When you look at it from an Atheist perspective, there just really isn't a whole lot of difference. Stop being so defensive.
Post by
Monday
I'm not attempting to be defensive, and I apologize if it comes out that way (granted, I would have tremendous reason given who you are and what thread I'm in, but I digress). I am merely attempting to show that I have absolutely no interest in debating about my religion, or do I want to stick up for the 'religion side' or whatever you want to call it.
I'm really only posting in this thread to clear up any misconceptions or logic flaws that I see. I am not going to attempt to prove myself correct or debate for any side.
Post by
Adamsm
Atheists still make me chuckle; they are believing non-believers and a 'religious' group in their own right.
Post by
HoleofArt
Atheists still make me chuckle; they are believing non-believers and a 'religious' group in their own right.
That really makes no sense and really isn't relevant to this discussion.
"Bald is not a style of hair. It is the absence of it."
Post by
Adamsm
Atheists still make me chuckle; they are believing non-believers and a 'religious' group in their own right.
That really makes no sense and really isn't relevant to this discussion.
"Bald is not a style of hair. It is the absence of it."
/shrug That might be, but it still makes me laugh. I don't have anything against any Atheist(merely individuals who have done something in the past that has affected me), but I like that they have more or less formed a new religion around Atheism.
And people who shave their head bald would possibly say different to your analogy.
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