Blizzard needs to change something to make dk a viable tank

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Post by 207044

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Post by sinaraine

Make a few "DK specific" weapons such as a two hander with some defense/stamina/strength on it and it's all aces.

about that... i highly doubt it would happen, the closest you'd get is some expertise i guess, cause giving them a def-based 2h weapon would make fury, arms, ret pallys, go "i can tank better then you in my current spec"

which often makes DKs look bad.

though yea, dk tanking is highly situational, for example, gothik. there is no way you gonna holy aggro of so many targets spawning all over the place even with you death grip. they keep coming, 40 yards apart from one another and IF, you had not reserved your runes to keep D&D up, prepare for a wipe as your DPSers/healers are just going to get aggro and die.

though keeping D&D up provides the main AOE aggro, it is not able to put up optimal threat to hold threat caused by target specific DPS, whereas warrior have vigilance and paladins has a 3 target taunt.

maybe get in the fight and you'd see what i mean.

halls of stone is just a minor stepping stone to gothik the harvester.

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Post by jynxycat

People can read that gibberish ?

No idea what the hell that even said, but Blizzard comments all the time on balancing X class. Death Knight adjustments are coming.

Post by Channing

As far as being a DK tank is concerned. I have no issues holding aggro. Only another DK has ever been able to pull aggro off me with the exception of people using taunts on the mobs. It's not an issue of aggro-holding, DKs are undoubtedly the best at it. We don't need to taunt because if you can put down IT, PS, Pest, HW, BB you got aggro. Bada bing. DnD Is more for say, your mage pops out blizzard. So you throw DnD to make up for that. Death Grip is our 'bad' taunt. Hardly any elites past HoL, Oc, UP, ext. can actually be moved via it. And besides that, we got dark command which is just a straight up 'hey hit me' taunt.
The major issue I've had with being a DK tank is the mitigation. Yes I have 4 mitigations (Lich, IC, AMB, and that armor/parry/str one I can't remember the name of). But even then, there is a few seconds of downtime in between, and if I get stunned or w.e I can't pop out the next one.
So instead of having 4 amazing mitigations, why not have a more constant mitigation? Or something. How about some tanking sigils! Or some more tank trinkets, I mean there really are like two or three ones pre naxx. Weapons, why should we care if people give DK tanks a good name. On my server, the heals are always like "great, a DK trying to tank this should be fun", after a few pulls in where a bad dps pulls an extra group and I catch it before it even hits the heals or casters, the entire group is worshipping me as a tank.

Summary: DKs are quick aggro building and catching tanks, working best with palies who can put up that little anti-dmg bubble and who have a good mana upkeep to make a run have nearly no downtime. We don't have a lot of mitigation, but our avoidance is a lil better than druids w/ parry.

/rant end

Post by 218960

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Post by Channing

Yup yup. I use the 5% parry enchant, but personally I think a +% of your total def would be amazing. Like take all your def rating and add back in #% of it. As for frost presence, I personally think that is a lil op. I certainly don't want to lose some stam/armor/threat so I can get a lil more mitigation. I mean, the trick is its hard at first but if you get your t7 gear in, you are an unstoppable tank.
Tanking sigil, that was just retarded (more so than a ret pally lol) to leave out.
To quote the bliz devs:
"Lets make a new class that will be a 'starter' tank for everyone to increase the amount of tanks out there!"
'yes sir, should we add in gear so they can do this?"
"Hellz no!"
Brilliant idea, am I right?

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Post by wuvluv

ouch

Post by Channing

Wow... Personally, as a DK tank, I have found us to be a shammy/priests personal favorite. I tank heroics (and no Im not even crit immune) like they are babies. Normally my heals are in either 70 epics, or 80 blues, and Im in all blues with an epic. On my server the trink from HoL never drops, and thats all I lack to be crit immune.
But as for DKs being only useful once in a blue moon.... No. What DKs strive at is fending off the first minute of a boss so that every single dps can do as much burst damage as they can without fear of over threating. So lets see, I start the fight with 50% dmg decrease, that goes down, I throw out 25% avoidance, after that Ive got 25% armor and 10% more parry, and after that no spell dmg taken. And if the mobs are still alive? I have what a ten second cool down before the cycle repeats (-the 25% avoidance. Which is why sometimes I do that first/last just depends on the fight.) But still. Thats insane, and its why I love DK tanks.
Yes we need more passive mitigation. Maybe Frost Mode needs to lower dmg to increase mitigation, which would be nice seeing as DKs have more DPS than a tank needs.

Another thing to note: DK tank + DK Dps = ultimate combo. A frost DK Tank with an unholy doing dps will produce enough dps between the two of their diseases and aoeing to keep fights so short healer barely has time to finish laying out dots. Plus, with an unholy DK dps he can OT if the tank dies/nearly dies.

DKs are a healers worst nightmare? They said the same thing about druids before people caught on how to play them.

Post by 218960

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Post by visas

I think we're more difficult to heal simply because, at the moment, we rely on cooldowns for mitigation. Without bone shield / icebound fortitude up, I am extremely vulnerable to spike damage. That puts a lot more strain on healers, and more 'luck' into the equation. Hopefully with the upcoming changes to itemization and abilities, that will no longer be an issue.

As an example, two of my CoT: Stratholme runs:

-The first run was horrible, I died probably 4 times during the run, almost every time was on trash mobs, and I had a level 78 priest healing. Now, I really think the issue here was that the priest was lagging a bit, and was heavier into discipline than holy. There's also the fact that he spent a lot of time spamming holy nova to aoe mobs instead of healing me -_-

-The second run, I had another 78 priest, heavier holy spec. During this run, I was pulling 2-3 groups at a time instead of just one, and I didnt die a single time during the run - didnt even get close, actually. I didnt change any gear inbetween the two runs, and other than pulling more mobs I didnt do anything else different.

So... yes, we do have mitigation problems, but that only means that there's more pressure on your healer's shoulders throughout the run. If you have a good healer, you'll do great. If you have a bad healer, you'll die... a lot.

With any luck, the next patch will make it a little easier on the bad healers =P

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