This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Classic Theme
Thottbot Theme
Abortion Scenerio
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
393249
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
This is the first time that lostguide and I agree on something.
Post by
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
Truce?
/nod
Post by
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
42080
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
In my opinion, the ends never will justify means.Why I crafted the scenerio the way that I did was so this would pop up. Either the ends don't justify the means, and abortion is wrong, or the ends do justify the means, and the man was right in holding her hostage. Quite a konundrum.
FYI, that coined modern phrase "the ends never justify the means" is a very, very bad summary of a couple thousand years of human thought.
I would never stick my hand down a toilet if there weren't a good enough end to justify it (eg I dropped a diamond ring down there). To say that the end never justifies the means is a complete rejecting of teleological thought.
Post by
MyTie
In my opinion, the ends never will justify means.Why I crafted the scenerio the way that I did was so this would pop up. Either the ends don't justify the means, and abortion is wrong, or the ends do justify the means, and the man was right in holding her hostage. Quite a konundrum.
FYI, that coined modern phrase "the ends never justify the means" is a very, very bad summary of a couple thousand years of human thought.
I would never stick my hand down a toilet if there weren't a good enough end to justify it (eg I dropped a diamond ring down there). To say that the end never justifies the means is a complete rejecting of teleological thought.
True enough. In the case of abortion, I agree with this statement: The ends never justify the means. Don't try to pull it apart. You can take it at face value.
Post by
312559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
True enough. In the case of abortion, I agree with this statement: The ends never justify the means. Don't try to pull it apart. You can take it at face value.
I was hoping you'd actually defend it (because there is a defense).
Instead, you're saying "The ends don't justify the means when I say so." If it's not true always, you
can't
take it at face value; you have to show why it's true in this case.
Post by
MyTie
True enough. In the case of abortion, I agree with this statement: The ends never justify the means. Don't try to pull it apart. You can take it at face value.
I was hoping you'd actually defend it (because there is a defense).
Instead, you're saying "The ends don't justify the means when I say so." If it's not true always, you
can't
take it at face value; you have to show why it's true in this case.
Because you can't know if you are ending a human life. There is no scientific proof one way or the other. What I am saying is that I am NOT the decideing factor when it comes to the legitimacy of abortion. What I am saying is that no one is. The ends, whatever they are, cannot justify the means, which is abortion, because we have yet to define what those costs are.
Post by
Orranis
I think the man chose the lesser of the two evils. Killing someone is worse than holding someone hostage in a comfortable place with a doctor.
A fetus is a human, just because it can't survive by its self doesn't make it non-human. If you look at a baby they are totally dependent on their care giver, it relies on breast milk for food and protection from viruses and getting sick because, I think, a baby doesn't have a fully developed immune system yet. Does this make it alright to kill babies?
Also if the mother is afraid to be a bad mother there is always adoption. If the mother is afraid of pain there is always drugs or other methods to reduce pain I believe.
So what you're saying is that no one should ever willingly release sperm or have a period because it's killing a potential life?
Post by
MyTie
I think the man chose the lesser of the two evils. Killing someone is worse than holding someone hostage in a comfortable place with a doctor.
A fetus is a human, just because it can't survive by its self doesn't make it non-human. If you look at a baby they are totally dependent on their care giver, it relies on breast milk for food and protection from viruses and getting sick because, I think, a baby doesn't have a fully developed immune system yet. Does this make it alright to kill babies?
Also if the mother is afraid to be a bad mother there is always adoption. If the mother is afraid of pain there is always drugs or other methods to reduce pain I believe.
So what you're saying is that no one should ever willingly release sperm or have a period because it's killing a potential life?
apples =/= oranges
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Because you can't know if you are ending a human life. There is no scientific proof one way or the other. What I am saying is that I am NOT the decideing factor when it comes to the legitimacy of abortion. What I am saying is that no one is. The ends, whatever they are, cannot justify the means, which is abortion, because we have yet to define what those costs are.
So what you really mean to say is what Aquinas said originally:
"But if the will be good from its intention of the end, this is not enough to make the external action good" (not the best translation, I know--but I don't have the Latin edition on me atm, so it'll have to do).
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I think the man chose the lesser of the two evils. Killing someone is worse than holding someone hostage in a comfortable place with a doctor.
A fetus is a human, just because it can't survive by its self doesn't make it non-human. If you look at a baby they are totally dependent on their care giver, it relies on breast milk for food and protection from viruses and getting sick because, I think, a baby doesn't have a fully developed immune system yet. Does this make it alright to kill babies?
Also if the mother is afraid to be a bad mother there is always adoption. If the mother is afraid of pain there is always drugs or other methods to reduce pain I believe.
So what you're saying is that no one should ever willingly release sperm or have a period because it's killing a potential life?
Sperm and eggs are haploid, humans are diploid.
Therefore sperm and eggs aren't human.
And sperm and eggs are alive, FYI.
Post by
MyTie
"But if the will be good from its intention of the end, this is not enough to make the external action good"I tenatively agree.
Post by
312559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Toldry
What was ethically wrong about his actions?
Forcing the woman to have a baby against her will and holding her hostage against her will.
What was ethically right about his actions?
Turning himself in afterward.
What was ethically wrong about her actions?
Nothing
What was ethically right about her actions?
Nada~
Post by
181961
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
Forcing the woman to have a baby against her will and holding her hostage against her will.
They did consentually agree to have a baby beforehand. Put yourself in his shoes, and just, for instance, think that unborn babies are actually alive, and that is your kid.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.
