This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Classic Theme
Thottbot Theme
Abortion Debate
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I don't understand how anyone could justify attempting to make sure the fetus dies after it's born. I mean, if someone thinks they have the right to not be required to physically sustain a fetus (which is the my body, my choice argument), then once the baby is removed doesn't that end your argument right there? I mean, once a child is born, if it's alive, and a mother kills it, that's murder. I don't understand what's going on if an abortion fails and the baby is born though- are they just leaving it in a corner to die, or are the babies dying even with medical care?
I...guess I just don't understand. I can't believe that legally, if a child survives an abortion attempt, and is outside the womb and breathing, that there's NOT legal protection already in place as a living separate being.
Post by
Azazel
Hey-hey. You don't have to get all personal just because I don't have the same beliefs as you.
Nice feigned surprise. Your comment was an obvious troll, and you got burned for it. Do you have anything to contribute to this discussion besides "IlikeObamalol"? If not, move along.
I like Obama because of what he does for poor people. I really think Obama is awesome, even though I don't agree with killing born babies.
Post by
OverZealous
I...guess I just don't understand. I can't believe that legally, if a child survives an abortion attempt, and is outside the womb and breathing, that there's NOT legal protection already in place as a living separate being.
I agree.
Post by
MyTie
I mean, once a child is born, if it's alive, and a mother kills it, that's murder.
Inside of her, the life ends, it's not murder, but outside of her, the same life ends, and it is murder? Doesn't this make you question your understanding of abortion at all?
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I mean- I think it would be automatic, and not something that has to be added separately.
Post by
ElhonnaDS
I mean, once a child is born, if it's alive, and a mother kills it, that's murder.
Inside of her, the life ends, it's not murder, but outside of her, the same life ends, and it is murder? Doesn't this make you question your understanding of abortion at all?
I'm pro-life anyway, MyTie. I don't understand how people make that differentiation at all. What I'm saying is that even by THEIR logic and definitions, it would be considered murder.
Post by
MyTie
I like Obama because of what he does for poor people. I really think Obama is awesome, even though I don't agree with killing born babies.
Then go to an economic thread to show your support. You only dropped that one liner to try and get a rise out of me. Seriously, on topic, or leave.
I...guess I just don't understand. I can't believe that legally, if a child survives an abortion attempt, and is outside the womb and breathing, that there's NOT legal protection already in place as a living separate being.
I agree.
If that same baby, IMMEDIATELY before it left the womb, were stabbed through the top of its head with a knife and had its brains vacuumed out, would that be murder? It isn't born yet, so it's not really real. RIGHT? I think I'm going to puke.
Post by
MyTie
I'm pro-life anyway, MyTie. I don't understand how people make that differentiation at all. What I'm saying is that even by THEIR logic and definitions, it would be considered murder.
I see... well then I'm attacking their position.
Post by
Azazel
I don't agree with killing born babies.
Post by
Patty
If that same baby, IMMEDIATELY before it left the womb, were stabbed through the top of its head with a knife and had its brains vacuumed out, would that be murder? It isn't born yet, so it's not really real. RIGHT? I think I'm going to puke.
That would be quite clearly child destruction - for example if all evidence pointed towards the baby being born healthy. But that's a very, very iffy term to use and I'm uncertain about it. Abortion has a cut-off point several months before birth. They're two different scenarios.
Post by
MyTie
I don't agree with killing born babies.
So you are against infanticide, but you think someone who voted against preventing infanticide is "awesome", because of his financial policies. The very best I can say... the VERY BEST... is that you and I have differing priorities. I doubt I'm allowed to say the very worst.
Post by
Azazel
I don't agree with killing born babies.
So you are against infanticide, but you think someone who voted against preventing infanticide is "awesome", because of his financial policies. The very best I can say... the VERY BEST... is that you and I have differing priorities. I doubt I'm allowed to say the very worst.
And I'm cool with that. We have different views and that's that. I don't wanna fight =/
Post by
MyTie
That would be quite clearly child destruction - for example if all evidence pointed towards the baby being born healthy. But that's a very, very iffy term to use and I'm uncertain about it.
If you are "iffy" then perhaps the responsible thing to do would be to oppose something that could be
murdering babies
. That seems so obvious to me. And you have to be "iffy". There are ifs that remain about the person-hood of zygotes. As long as those "ifs" remain, I'm going to be against abortion. And, finally, those "ifs" will always be there.
Post by
gamerunknown
It's not only in abortions that these decisions are made, "viability" is also taken into account if the mother goes into labour prematurely (or waters break due to shock or an accident). There are cases of mothers lying or doctors making a judgement call where children have survived before the legal cutoff point for abortions though (into adulthood, too).
Post by
MyTie
It's not only in abortions that these decisions are made, "viability" is also taken into account if the mother goes into labour prematurely (or waters break due to shock or an accident). There are cases of mothers lying or doctors making a judgement call where children have survived before the legal cutoff point for abortions though (into adulthood, too).
Since there are isolated cases, it stands to reason that there were many many cases where abortion was performed when the fetus was viable. In that case, would you consider it murder? If so, would you be willing to use the word "genocide" considering the sheer number of mid to late term abortions performed? Would you say that there has been a genocide perpetrated onto the unborn?
Post by
Adamsm
Would you say that there has been a genocide perpetrated onto the unborn?No.
Post by
MyTie
Would you say that there has been a genocide perpetrated onto the unborn?No.
Why not? Too strong of a word to use? Don't think it fits? Don't just say 'no'. That's a copout. Explain why you don't think the mutilation and death of viable infants, some of them already born, in mass numbers, is a genocide? Is this too serious of a word to apply to something, that you would describe to be too trivial?
Post by
Adamsm
Yes the word is too strong to use. Use murder if that's what you see it as, but don't call it genocide, since abortion is not about wiping out a species. And I doubt the numbers are as high as you think they are for partial birth abortions; that's also leaving out the fact that a large number of premature births(which is what that would be) don't survive and those who do are little miracles.
It's also not a cop out, since we both know that we're on the completely opposite sides here and any 'discussion' will just end up being nothing but arguments as both sides just pick away at terminology.
Post by
MyTie
It's also not a cop out, since we both know that we're on the completely opposite sides here and any 'discussion' will just end up being nothing but arguments as both sides just pick away at terminology.
The difference may be that it is worthwhile to have this discussion, and to pick away at your terminology. Why? You're very wrong about something horribly important. If you're not willing to have that discussion, then why are you here? "no" is not discussion.
PS. Genocide doesn't necessarily apply to a species. And there have been millions and millions of abortions performed. Only recently was partial birth abortion stopped.
Post by
Adamsm
And that's my choice to be 'wrong' just like it's your choice to be 'right'. And 'No' is how I feel, so it's enough for me.
Edit: Hell, this isn't even a 'debate' anymore, it's just personal opinion against personal opinion since no one is going to change their views in this thread.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.
