[3.3] Intro to Death Knight Tanking

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Post by 312532

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Post by Nystali

Good catch. I forgot to remove blood gorged when making the changes for 3.1.

Post by 292580

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Post by Death087

Post by Nystali

I just have a question. For frost aoe tanking with your death runes procced why would you do BS instead of BB after your HB?

With the death runes procced, I wouldn't use BB or BS. I'd just use Oblit and hope for a Rime proc.

IT->PS->Pest->HB->BS
Oblit->HB->Oblit

Another thing you could end up doing would be just ignore your death rune procs and spam one rotation.

IT->PS->Pest->HB->BB

If I did something like this rotation, I'd constantly be changing my targets or something similar:

DnD->IT->PS->Pest
HB->BB->Oblit->BB

Post by Nystali

Very nice guide; loved the way you laid everything out so clearly with explanations.

However, I had one problem: The Red Sword of Courage is Unique-Equipped. You cannot dual-wield that. You can dual-wield Slayer of the Lifeless...and, of course, the best tanking weapons for dual-wielding: The Last Laugh. You cannot compare the Titansteel Destroyer with a dual-Red Sword, but you can compare it with any combination of - dual-wielding considerations included - the Red Sword, the Last Laugh...and the Slayer.

The reason I took the Naxxramas drops into account was because this is 3.1.0. Of course, the Last Laugh is a Naxx-25 drop...and, I believe, rarer.

Actually, I took that example from a question in the comments a few pages back. I completely glossed over Red Sword being unique equipped. In the comment I think it was maybe one red sword and assault blade. The gem count was about the same but you did have to gem one red +expertise for the titansteel destroyer to match the expertise given by one of the swords.

In the end though, the point is still made, especially for an "Intro" guide like this. If we were to compare dual last laugh, then we'd have to look at inevitable defeat or death's bite or betrayer of humanity.

Post by 203804

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Post by Nystali

I've been an UH tank since levelling, but I am quite confused with 3.1 UH tanking spec. I think about this one: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EZ0xxZbghIxbdMIoocoux:MmpMVm (10/10/51). Everything seems fine there to me (all good tanking talents+good threat generation). What do you think? Also are the glyphs ok?

Perma-ghouls are cool and all, but they really don't help with tanking. I'd save that for a dps dual spec and go ghoul-less for tanking. That would allow you to put points in other place that will increase your own threat generating ability.

When you do get that second spec, I'd also take On a Pale Horse out of your tanking spec as well.

Impurity would be a great talent to pick up when you get the free points.

Other than that, looks ok.

Post by 203804

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Post by 292580

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Post by Nystali

Changed it to this (-Ravenous Dead-Ghoul talents-Pale Pony;+Impurity+Virulence)
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EZ0xxZfghcx0zgI0ocoux:MmpMVm
Seems perfect now, thanks :P
By the way I think that Scent of Blood is theoretically a very good tanking talent, but I remember that I never had any problems with RP generation while UH tanking and using all Rune Strikes when possible. Is it worth the points?

I do like the look of scent of blood, but for now I've talented with Epidemic instead just because it allows for much looser rotations.

If you find yourself RP starved, would be worth it, otherwise I think its just a frill talent.

Post by 356951

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Post by 334662

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Post by Nystali

When you pull a mob, you want to focus your strikes on the first kill and spread the diseases from that kill. Your primary goal is to generate a lot of threat on the first target while generating suitable threat on the others so that a mage/lock/hunter using one of their aoes won't pull them off of you. Generally, once you use howling blast, they're yours.

I'm really set in my ways of using PS in a tanking rotation as frost (I even use it in a DPS rotation which I have to teach myself to stop using apparently). That extra disease is useful for aoe situations as its an extra damage modifier for BB. At the same time though, if you glyph for howling blast, you can do a rotation kind of like:

DnD->HB->BB

That generates a crazy amount of threat right there and applies one disease so everything in range will most likely be on you forever. I generally use that for messy group pulls though.

I do still use IT->PS->Pest->HB->BB/BS for most group pulls in 5 mans just because I don't lean so much on DnD. Because of Blood of the North, I tend to avoid BB unless I fall into a repeating rotation of HB->BB->BB->Oblit(hoping for Rime proc) for messy big pulls in some raid situations.

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Hit rating is important for all tanks. Of course getting to uncrittable is most important first. My goal with Naxx level gear is to be at melee hit cap (8% which I'm .5% away from). Another equally and maybe more important goal is to get enough expertise to avoid Dodges. Your armory is not showing your expertise properly as far as I can tell.

As for gear, I know the frost resist gear is epic and has lots of stamina, but work hard on wyrmrest rep so you can get the good chest piece from there. Stacking stamina is great and all, but there are a lot of other things to tanking such as generating a good amount of threat and avoiding damage in general. I'd honestly drop the frost resist gear and downgrade to the other pieces of the tempered saronite set so you can get closer to uncrittable. Get badges fast (as soon as you're uncrittable) so you can get the belt. Do regular HoL to get the +def trinket from loken. You might be stuck with your bracers for a while, not many quick upgrades for them unless you shell out a lot of cash for the valor emblem bracers. I'd recommended throwing +expertise on your current ones until you upgrade.

You're attack power is really low right now. I think that's a side effect of not having enough quality tanking gear which generally has a good amount of strength on it which adds to your AP.

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Your spec has some problems:

- Frigid Dreadplate is a must for frost tanks.
- Improved Frost Presence is a good amount of extra mitigation that you need to take.
- Merciless Combat doesn't help so much for tanking.
- Hungering Cold is useless for tanking.
- Icy Reach helps for pulling further away, but I still see it with more PvP usage than tanking. You want the group in your face anyways so you can spread diseases/HB/BB to better effect.
- Don't take Vicious Strikes as Plague Strike is used once every 2-3 rune sets.

Glyphs:

- Replace Glyph of Plague Strike for Disease or Howling Blast when you find them cheap enough. Unbreakable Armor is another alternative.

Post by 334662

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Post by svl007

You might be stuck with your bracers for a while, not many quick upgrades for them unless you shell out a lot of cash for the valor emblem bracers. I'd recommended throwing +expertise on your current ones until you upgrade.

quite decent and epic (it matters! :p) bracers can be found in hc ok.

bracers are down to 1k g if you look a bit, at least on my server, which isn't all that much anymore. but if you're short on cash, the ones from hc ok might be the better option

Post by 344079

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Post by Nystali

I'm curious who this well known tank is...

Some major problems with the build:
- Black Ice is a must to produce a ton of threat should always go 5/5
- Lichborne is no longer needed but is ok if you have the point to spare.
- Annihilation is required for frost tanking. There is no reason to gimp your dps and mitigation by removing diseases. (mitigation due to Imp Icy Touch)
- Rime is much too good for a deep frost build to pass up whether it be tank or dps.
- Hungering Cold is not a tanking talent and should not be taken and especially not glyphed.
- Merciless Combat is not needed for tanking.
- Icy Reach is not needed.
- Chill of the Grave is more important than Runic Power Mastery.
- Icy Talons and Imp Icy Talons are a very expensive few talents to get for very minimal increase in threat.

I've listed several frost tanking specs that are all better designed than the one you've linked. Although I do need to maybe add glyphs. The only glyph in your link that needs to be replaced is Hungering Cold for Howling Blast.

If you look at Sharithera's link in my signature, you can see the build that I run with and I find it to have very high threat production.

Post by 344079

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Post by Nystali

That one works much better, especially if you use DnD most every pull. Its probably not the best to build lots of threat, but you have the most mitigation that the frost tree can provide with acclimation.