3.1 Frost 2h DPS, Everything Explained

Post by 334662

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Post by Aadramelekh

Indeed a nice idea, but is it worth losing the 15% Rime chance for using only Icy Touch?

Also consider that Obliterate does hit pretty damn hard. Usually I score 3300 normal / 9800 critical hits with Obliterate when raid buffed. On the other hand I haven't seen Icy Touch do more than 2000 / 4000.

The fact that Obliterate benefits from an extra 48% bonus damage to critical hits makes it crit for 296%. This factor alone (not considering Rime) puts Obliterate ahead of IT for me (even if IT does generate 25 RP with Glyph, while OB generates 30 with 4xT7).

Also when upgrading from Death's Bite to Ironsoul for instance, IT will remain the same, while OB will go higher.

There is also the question of Sigil of the Vengeful Heart versus the Sigil of Awareness issue. Indeed the Ulduar sigil is better, since Frost Strike ignores armor. Obliterate has more crit from talents (just as Icy Touch has in fact), Frost Strike benefits from Killing Machine.

One more fact to consider: Ulduar gear comes with high amounts of ArP - which will directly improve Obliterate but have no effect on Icy Touch or Frost Strike.

In the end, here's a small list of gear up to ilvl 219 (easy to get so to speak): CLICK ME. I think that +20% bonus damage per disease for Obliterate (4xT8) provides a solid argument in its favor. 301 ArP means a hefty bonus damage for Melee Swings, Blood Strike & Obliterate. The gear selection provides hit / expertise caps, leaving sockets available for all out Strength. The ArP and 4xT8 greatly improve Obliterate.

In the end, I am not so sure that IT spam is better than using OB (even it if allows for some extra FS). I guess it requires some extensive testing.

Post by 368238

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Post by Izichial

Rune of the Fallen Crusader is still the superior runeforge. Burst from rng is completely irrelevant in PvE, as much as we all love big numbers.

Post by 334662

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Post by pezz

I was asking about the reason for DRM in a Frost build in this thread: http://www.wowhead.com/?forums&topic=98113&p=1102492 (I've reposted here because I was distracting that thread from the original point) and it gave me a possible idea for a Frost rotation, for use only against single targets (i.e. bosses) which I wanted to ask about.

If the opening rotation is a fairly standard:

IT BS BS BT OB OB FS rp dump, it leaves the following runes: B D D D D D

Lynri answered my question of why frost would use DRM, saying for an IT runic power generation spam, so the next rotation would be:

IT BS BS IT IT IT FS rp dump, leaving: D D F F U U

Next is: OB OB OB FS rp dump, leaving: B B D D D D

Obviously FS on every KM proc, and HB on every Rime.

And the last two parts of the rotation follow each other until whatever is supposed to be dead is dead. With the IT glyph and the FS glyph, this would lead to a ridiculous number of Frost Strikes. So much so, that disease up-time may be a problem, especially during the Obx3 + FS phase. This leaves the choices of glyph of HB and praying for rime procs (but I'd rather have glyph of OB), replacing one of the three OB's with two IT's, or perhaps using Unholy Presence to try and get through the rotations faster. Epidemic won't be in the build since this needs to be 20/51/0 for DRM. I confess I'm not sure how the DPS of this rotation would compare to other rotations, or even if the Death Runes would be used up the way they would need to be to get the runes I would need. What does someone with more knowledge of Frost DPS than myself think?

Post by 334662

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Post by Overcome

Here's a question I've been wondering about. Would taking DRM over Virulence be better? Right now I have 323 hit rating just from gear (no gems or enchants for hit) which comes out to 12.31% spell hit and with virulence it's 15%. I'm finding it hard for me to keep my frost rotation under control though, so I wonder if using DRM would be better for me or not.

Post by 334662

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Post by Eleazer

Lynri, I am thankful for your thread, my rotation is slightly different in that I love to HB whenever I am tanking whenever it's available, I know I lose the extra DPS of OB, but for me it's worth it for the aoe effect, RS is great for when I am tanking for guys who out gear me by alot.
Anyways that wasn't my point. The reason I am commenting is because it struck me today how similar a frost dps DK is to an enhance shaman. I raided BC as an alliance enhance shaman, since then I have gone with a horde frost dk (level of play and maturity is about 1000times better wish I would have gone horde sooner lol). Coming from an enhance shaman to DK I realized that we are basically an enhance shaman with more dps and plate. Sure we give up the ability to heal, but in pve it doesn't matter since we basically double their dps, but with imp icy talons and Horn of Winter we basically eliminate the need for an enhancement shaman. The only buff they get that we don't match or top is Heroism. However we are both reliant on physical damage with casting dps and buff the exact same things.This has nothing to do with dps, just hit me while I was playing the other day. Even my rotation is earily similar to my enhance rotation. Replace Stormstrike with Obliterate, and Flame shock with Howling Blast, Frost Strike with Earth Shock and bammo you have an enhance shaman pre Wotlk Rotation. Just a thought. As for wotlk simply replace our ghoul with their dogs and you got the pet part too found it way too odd.

Post by 334662

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Post by Eleazer

Wait you found an enhancement shaman who knew how to gear right! No Freaking way! lol, not possible that's it I am moving to your server LOL. They have to be the one class that has more improper geared players out there. I can't think of another class that screws themselves over more :P. Almost to 80 here looking forward to the DPS and Tanking. I have noticed that other classes are catching up to me in dps here. I have been at 1400 now and everyone else is catching up. Oh well it was fun while it lasted :P.

Post by Eleazer

Lynri,

When tanking is the defensive cap still 450 at 80? As a frost tank, I get the snot kicked out of me at times, I guess after 450 it's all about avoidance. Is that correct?

Post by rocketw

Actually, it's 540, for raids, but you might be dyslexic. Tanking with a 2H allow for the use of Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle. RoTSG adds 25 defense, not defence rating, making 2H tanking much better for DKs.

Post by 334662

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Post by pezz

It's 540 for raids, 535 for heroics. This is universal to all tanking classes except druids who have a talent to become uncrittable because for whatever reason blizzard decided like they didn't feel like making gear for this one particular class/spec.

End of tanking discussion.

Post by 334662

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Post by Overcome

Here's a question I know I've asked somewhere before, but can't for the life of me find it in my profile. Anyway what number of expertise should I be shooting for? Right now when I look at my character stats it says I have 19 expertise which I believe is 4.75% chance to not be dodged or parried. How much more should I go for?

EDIT: and 30 seconds later I find the original post I made. My question was about the soft cap. Someone answered me 6.5% soft and about 15% hard.

Post by 334662

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Post by Eleazer

Lynri,

Quick question. I understand the value of Blood Presence in that it adds a 15 percent boost to all attacks which gives you a basic 15 percent increase.

I don't remember reading about unholy presence. I seem to find that in some situations Unholy presence gives me more dps than Blood Presence. Do we know the difference between the dps increase of Unholy as opposed to Blood?

Using unholy I found taht I could get twice as many Frost Strikes as I did with Blood Presence. In fact my total dps count in Blood was

1. Howling Blast - 28 percent
2. Melee - 25 percent
3. Frost Strike or Obliterate depending on run

In Unholy presence

1. Howling Blast - 25
2. Frost strike - 22 percent
3. Melee - 20 percent

I found that my Obliterate, Frost strike were almost always up and waiting for me to punch rather than me waiting on a cooldown to get my next attack going. I enjoyed Unholy presence more because it cut down my time while moving between targets and kept my rune power filled I had almost no down time. I can do some more studies and post them. Granted this isn't in a 10 or 25 man raid just 5 man dungeons, but I found it odd.

3.1 Frost 2h DPS, Everything Explained

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