This is easily the best ranged slot PvP weapon in the game, being slightly better than the heartstriker not to mention it looks insanely cool.
Looks cool and has great stats. By Naxx, hunters should have an equivalent rifle or bow so this will probably go to your rogues or warriors who want that stam and AP. That's a shame, because this looks better than, say, Ashjre'thul but is not nearly as powerful.
In live this gun can't compete with Ashjre'thul, however the patch will give this gun the buff it needed making it higher dps than anything pre-Naxx.
Excellent weapon for hunters post 2.0. With the change to RAP, the +28 helps even more now, ontop of the already high DPS value. In a T1/T2 hunter, one can see regular 1.1k auto-shot crits. I highly suggest you pick this weapon up, especially if you're still using Rhok'delar.
My friends hunter uses this weapon and it is absolutely amazing, the dps this thing can generate is jaw dropping. Hunters should have top priority on this weapon then rogues and warriors.
The standardization of attack speed used in calculations for Multishot and Aimed Shot uses the DPS of the weapon * 2.8. It has nothing to do with the damage range of the weapon. You said it had nothing to do with the speed, which is true, but if it had to do with damage range, speed would obviously be what mattered because weapons are balanced based on their DPS primarily, so of weapons with similar DPS, speed would be what determined approximate damage range. Previously, before 1.10, damage range was what mattered + all other attack power times the speed of the bow which yielded much more power from slow bows. Now everything uses 2.8 instead of the actual speed. That said, this is still a bad choice for hunter for a couple reasons. First, although calling a weapon "too fast" is silly because an extremely fast weapon would rock with Imp AotH and spamming Arcane Shot for no autoshot interruption, this weapon DOES have a bad speed in that it is not fast enough to make spamming arcane shot useful. Therefore, the difference between your 3 second aimed shot cast and the speed of the bow is a direct penalty to your damage. A bow is doing optimal damage if it is cooling down the entire duration of Aimed shot so its autoshot is not interrupted by it. Second, its a gun, so you can't use Ancient Sinew Wrapped Lamina. Now you have to go farm AV rep.
I know I said bow a lot, but I was referring to all ranged weapons.
not a hunter weapon? ok. But why... WHY BLIZZARD WHY did you WASTE this model on a rogue/warrior weapon. The looks are the best I've seen and yet they've decided to make it for someone who pretty much never pulls it out
Sure they are low damage when firing autoshot, and burn your ammo, but Fast weapons are FUN to use on my hunter... I'm sure that went over mostly everyones head. I have no need to explain why, but simple fun.
I would want to try it b4 I could say it sucked, or not... I dont know how people could judge this thing without trying it... on a Hunter
Additionaly my hunter is a Troll I prefer bows, Looking at the 2nd highest DPS bow of the game you may notice the speed... 1.80 pvp bow, does blizzard just want to screw my racail bonus and give me a crappy fast weapon? this could be. or are all of you saying the HighWarlord Bow is also crap just based on its speed? so say its crap never try it and be certain you know everything, write 3 pages on thottbot about suck ... or just write a 1 liner like. "your stupid" as your post. or try some varity and have fun. listening to this garbage really is irritating. I used to come here when I wanted to know where to find an item, but that become's impossible when having to weed thru 1000 posts about why im right and your not, and why your stupid and i'm not. I guess having a public forum creates this environment. so thanks to those of you who provided real information, answered questions and gave basic facts. cheers to you... the rest of you should live and let live, try something new you may actually enjoy.
If I had Information to share about this weapon it would be give it a try on your hunter, and dont concern yourself with negitive opinions, because honestly unless you equip this on a hunter you will never know how if fuctions.
If anyone ever makes it down to the bottom of this long.. drawn out.. boring conversation then here is my two cents straight foward.
Slow ranged are great for pvp/pve and all around good for throwing out huge numbers with low ammo consumption.
However if you are an alliance hunter you will have the benifit of Judgement of Wisdom during most high end raid boss encounters. This is where fast ranged weapons and our instant attacks are very helpful. Since you CAN CHANGE ranged weapons during combat.. wouldn't matter anyways since FD leaves combat... you can blow 2/3rds of your mana, switch to fast ranged, hit rapid fire and watch that mana regen all the way to full more often then not. When it is full, switch back to slow weapon and whamo big crits everywhere again.
Personaly though... I usualy do not use aimed shot or slow ranged weapons on most high end raid bosses.. unless there are mobs being crowd controled, fast weapon+arcane+multishot, rinse repeat over an over again. As I see it the key to downing almost all of the boss encounters in WoW is to throw as much dps at the target without pulling aggro of the MT. I know I know.. aimed shot is the end all beat all big damage maker for hunters, blah blah blah. However, no offence to anyone, I do not see many hunters on my server who know how to play their class effectivly and will constantly pull aggro off the boss because they are trying to be ranged rogues. An just like rogues who do to much DPS and not enough feints, they aggro the mob and get wasted or they FD way to late sending the mob towards a healer or caster nine times outof ten. Which more often then not causes a few people to unnessarily die.
In conclusion, most of the hunters I hear bragging about pulling off big aimed crits during boss encounters Ony/MC/bwl/AQ20 an up are usualy the first ones to get killed early on in the fight. Those who keep their faster weapons on most the fight and are smart enough to FD after those high crits are alive at the end. Which in the end means the second hunter does more damage an saves his shiney epics that nasty death durability hit.
It all comes back to playing your character right and knowing how to use their skills effectivly to keep you alive and with mana the entire fight. Cuz a hunter without mana is almost useless.
Oh... and I would take this gun. I would make a point to get this and the "Larvae of the Great Worm". The dps is almost the same, but there is a full second in speed which makes a hunter with both very flexible to any given situation. Least there are finaly some awesome guns coming around for us Dwarf hunters that doesn't require pvping for half a year. (pretends not to know about dragonsbreath hand cannon)
If you land a big crit you just FD immediatly afterwards. After you get up from that FD your aggro is gone. By gone I mean zero. If you are able to pull aggro off a trash mob in any endgame instance after one FD then your guild is killing things way to slow.
The same is true for boss encounters but you will use FD repeatedly as opposed to just once. I will attack until I hit a big crit or several small ones and I FD. Get back up and do it again. After a good while raiding you'll get a good feel for when aggro is about to come your way.
Bottom line, fast weapon, slow weapon, it doesn't matter. The weapon is only as good as the person using it.
Also, just so you all know. It is really obviouse when a non-raider is talking about raiding. So don't embarass yourself. There is nothing wrong with not raiding.
Cant blizzard ever make a good GUN for hunters with a cool design? (yepp, i am a dwarf hunter)
Best weapon up until Kel'thuzad is Ashjre'thul.
+5 weapon skill is ~ .2% crit, 1.25% hit.
Even considering the troll/dwarf racials into account, Ashjre'thul is still the most superior weapon in the game due to raw dps it puts with the 9 second clipped shot rotation (the reason Nerubian slavemaker is better is because it won't clip at the end, AND the dps/stats are far superior).
Basically here's how it works with Ashjre'thul, Aimed -> Auto -> Multi -> Auto -> Auto (wait a 1/4 second here for that last Auto to get off then...) -> Repeat. Every so often the Multishot and Aimed Shot cooldowns might be even, at which point you leave a Multishot out and wait for it. This is mathematically the highest sustained dps output for a hunter. Any hunter here talking about Arcane shot spam, well they have no idea how their class functions, so don't pay attention to them. Even after normalization weapon speed is still the most important factor due to the mechanics on Aimed Shot.
A good thread to read on the mechanics of Hunter DPS can be found here.
As for JoW and BoW not giving you enough mana back, it's not important. You can downrank to rank 1 multishot and still do more dps with Ashjre'thul and never run out of mana than any other weapon currently in the game (with the exception of the Slavemaker).
Another thing to note is, Dragonstalker is PPM based, which means fast weapons and slow weapons will proc it the same amount of a given period of time, however, it doesn't take into account instant attacks like arcane shot and multishot, which push PPM based procs in favor of much slower weapons.
This weapon is basically a high dps rogue/warrior stat stick with an awesome graphic (kind of like the Dragonbreath Handcannon that all of our hunter's hate, Ebonroc needs to drop DFT instead kthx). Honestly it really doesn't matter, because any current Naxx level guild is going to have hunters who have already done the math and theorycraft to know this weapon is a POS and their rogues and warriors will pick it up for a low bid. (My guild's on Anub'rekhan, downed Instructor, working on Twin Emps, so it will be awhile before our rogues and warriors see it).
BTW if ur giving this 2 tanks/rogue over a hunter REROLL a hunter and see how it feels!
i dont care wat u say about topend dps the more dps ur bow is the more u will do,requardless of its speed,
SLOWER=more damage from crits and shot rotation
FASTER=more crits from auto shot witch is ur main dps and more alround crits witch if u have the talent witch increaces ur damage from crits (witch all hunters do) u will do more dps..
This one with Judgement of Wisdom on target, Black Grasp of the Destroyer on your hands and Improved Aspect of the Hawk is porn..
with the expansion comin g up I am thinking of taking this, and this is why
1. aimed atops autoshot so will no longer be part of the shot rotatio, and as such reduces our reliance on slow weapons
2. the dps is quite high (higher than xbow of smiting)
3. fast weapon = lots of focus for pet =more damage.
4. fast weapon means lots of crits which means lots of kill commands
5. fast weapon also nicer for grinding since it offers more consistant damage and also easier for pet to hold aggro
6. it looks awsome
so for me the only weapons better for BC is nerubian slavemaker(this dps is insane) and soulstring(slightly higher dps and wont each ammo quite as fast)
but since we only have 11 nax boses on farm atm I doubt I will see either of those before TBC.
There are many options similar to this for warriors/rogues so I wont feel like I am stealing
I would also like to clarify, no hunter should ever, ever use this in current live WoW, the speed just doesn't work with current hunter mechanics
EDIT: glanced over a few other posts, and I just dont believe some people are thinking this is better than smiting currently ingame. Atm aimed doesnt stop autoshot timer, so all aimed shots get a free autoshot afterwards. and the autoshot is NOT normalised.
so the aimed shot itself may not hit as hard, BUT there is a free autohot that hits alot harder with slower weapons, hence why xbow of smiting is greater than anything except nerubian slavemaker
For a Dwarf Hunter this would rock :D with the fast fireing speed of this thing your DPS would be through the roof... unless you are a noob and only used aimed shot, which if you do you probably never survive in any instance past MC so then this weapon is way WAY out of your reach.
I did some tests with two different guns that were both slow (3.00) and fast (2.30) shooting speeds. What I found is that with faster guns, the damage bonus you get from bullets and the scope is much greater since you shoot more often. Even though the base DPS of the faster gun was lower then the slower gun it did more DPS. Think of it this way, each bullet adds + damage and the scope enchant also Adds + damage much like on a melee weapon + damage enchant. You want it to be a fast weapon so you get that + damage bonus more often.
If you really want those high Aimed-Shots get a slower gun but remember this one thing, big spikes in DPS = Sudden High Agro = Pulling Agro = Wipeing the raid!
Fast Shooting Speed + Good Amo Pouch + High lvl Bullets + Scope = Really High Steady DPS
PS: I am a lvl 60 Dwarf Hunter with almost full tier 2 gear. Just so you guys know I am not some noob who is lvl 32 looking at "The cool purpley gear."
Edited, Jul 5th 2006 at 10:30pm EDT by bakayaro
Edited, Jul 5th 2006 at 10:30pm EDT by bakayaro
Pic of the gun in action:
Fast weapons have their uses, regenning mana with judgement, interrupting casters, fights where you move a lot they can sometimes edge slower weapons due to more autoshots.
Melee classes often use multiple weapons for different situations, why people believe it should be any different for hunters is beyond me.
Anyway, why argue, if you want the gun, get it, if you don't pass!
Sorry for the double post, edit wasn't working :(
Edited, Jul 6th 2006 at 10:53pm EDT by MirraWarsong
best gun for rogue's :)
You would think this thing would shoot out poison, have a +nature damage bonus(serpent sting), or have a nature damage proc as the name would imply.
Is this like a huge syringe?
This gun is utter balls for hunters, Rhok'delar is way better. This should go straight to warriors (rogues doing these bosses should have at striker's mark at least - much better than this).
If you dont believe me, check out the hunter forums and you'll find a nice table listing hunter dps and how it works. 128 max damage? Please..
Pic of the gun in action:
One thing to say: the rogues and warriors in my guild can stop drooling, because any hunter not going for this thing is a complete retard. I would so take this over rhok, just because of the massive dps.
This weapon probarly arn't near Ashjre'thul in dps at the moment, but as the mechanincs will change in BC this maybe will be a great gun to leveling upp to 70.
Hopefully we will se a better use for fast range weapons in BC, so if it drops I won't hasitate to bid on this, i will not use it now but when BC comes out it will be rather nice.
wow, new best ranged weap in game, awesome.
would like to see how it looks tho : \ meh, it'll come in time
This is the coolest looking gun in the game so far, the speed and damage is disapointing to say the least. If you want to get this and are in a guild that cant make it to there, more power to ya, Listening to folks that post about items that they dont have (or had) is pretty stupid. I have Rok and the dragon's breath handcannon, passed the crossbow off chromaggus a few times to hunters that had sucky ranged compared to what i and other had. I use the DBHC alot more than Rok. Why? because it looks cooler and I like the stats more. My toon's race gets no benefit from a gun or bow, so it comes down to what do you like. True you wont get really big crits with this but you will be dealing out a constant stream of DPS with this one and the attack power comes in handy for when not in a raid and you not a hunter that just FD's when you pull aggro off you pet or your PVPing and FD cooldown is not up and you get rushed by a melee class (mind you if your a hunter that lacks melee power you aint gonna stand up for too long). IF you prefer guns and dont have the musket from AQ40 or DBHC, then get this, if you got one of those and dont care if its gun, bow or Xbow, I wouldnt bother and hold out for better like the one off Oruo.
Edited, Aug 1st 2006 at 11:09am EDT by RealOxblood
Nice gun for hunters.
52 Night Elf Hunter@ Grim Batol
nice gun. i want it.
Edited, Sep 7th 2006 at 12:33am EDT by Dakkl
kinda new to the deeper game analysis, but could someone explain what "normalized" means when discussing weapon speeds and such. ive always been in the belief that for hunters, slow melee weaps and fast ranged were best. i tried using a gun as close to 3sec as possible to take advantage of aimed shot, but still came to the conclusion that with the more shots per sec, the more overall dps i would gain from better ammo, higher atk power, and scopes.
but overall i think there are better ranged out there for hunters.
Forgot to add this for Zysac,
Rhok'delar DPS = 44
Toxin Injector DPS = 49
So yeah what are you talking about...
Also here is a pic of it. It looks SWEET ^.^
Edited, Jul 5th 2006 at 10:39pm EDT by bakayaro
small upgrade compared to the broodlord gun hearthstriker
As of right now, the claims about slower weapons being better because of aimed shot are correct. However, come burning crusade, aimed shot is gonna be made to reset ALL of your shot cycles, even auto-shot. That and the fact that they're giving us steady shot, and they're making it so that attack power is prolly gonna be more important in raids than agi, and this is gonna be one of the best guns out there, if not the best.
Clearly Rogueweapon if you consider the design of it! =)
At least only rogues were bidding tonight, hunters or warriors didn't even bother... got it for 70 dkp wich is pretty cheap in our system. (I paid 10x the dkp for maexxna's fang)
This really isn't a hunter weapon. The low damage and high speed make it pretty weak. As someone already said, you will lose more autoshots in between while using an aimed shot that you would with a slower weapon.
And if you don't use aimed shot in raid instances you are an absolutely abysmal hunter. Hunters can nuke out full dps with feigning in between, if fd fails you will have to ease dps a little. I am surprised anyone can even dish out such utter crap as not to use aimed shot in raiding.
Not only lower dps in PvE but it wouldn't do the job in PvP either to be honest. You only get a certain time to be at range, and need to dish out high dmg hits.
Save your dkp for a REAL upgrade over rhokdelar/ashretul whatever.
Edited, Aug 17th 2006 at 5:54am EDT by Moshh
Edited, Aug 17th 2006 at 5:50am EDT by Moshh
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