The noob culture, and the playing of WoW

发布者 475128

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

发布者 93865

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

发布者 Hyperspacerebel

发布者 reddwarf

发布者 Cambo

This person actually has a very valid point.

I disagree. We haven't been horrible to Aestu, we are just struggling to comprehend what he's saying. We don't hate him, but the nature of his post history has granted a generally negative viewpoint of him. Some of Aestu's threads in the past have garnered good discussion and favourable responses.

Threads tend to go off-topic here easily, but primarily due to the poor original post. Recently we've been reacting critically of threads. It's not easy to keep Wowhead forums ticking along with intelligent, entertaining and thoughtful topics when you log in to encounter a slew of pointless threads. Usually it's better to post something rather than leave it with 0 responses.

Would be nice to have further viewpoint by a Wowhead staffer about this, perhaps in another part of these forums?

发布者 Hyperspacerebel

Ohhh, I see the point now:

THEN: Play the game for your own enjoyment, who cares if you beat it
NOW: Play the game to beat it, cry and whine until it's nerfed so you can beat it.

He's basically trotting out the old "entitled whining casual minority" saw that Total Biscuit often talks about on his podcast; that someone who plays WoW for their own enjoyment doesn't care about the endgame, while the bad player (aka entitled casual aka scrub aka baddie) will throw a tantrum to get the content nerfed or get free epics (i.e. the Badge System) to be able to beat the game because they aren't good enough to beat it otherwise, and have it in their head that they MUST "beat the game" to have fun.

But that's not an Then/Now issue. That's an online-game/non-online-game issue. Sure, it just so happens that there weren't persistent world online games back 20 years ago, but that's accidental.

This person actually has a very valid point.

I disagree. We haven't been horrible to Aestu, we are just struggling to comprehend what he's saying. We don't hate him, but the nature of his post history has granted a generally negative viewpoint of him. Some of Aestu's threads in the past have garnered good discussion and favourable responses.

Threads tend to go off-topic here easily, but primarily due to the poor original post. Recently we've been reacting critically of threads. It's not easy to keep Wowhead forums ticking along with intelligent, entertaining and thoughtful topics when you log in to encounter a slew of pointless threads. Usually it's better to post something rather than leave it with 0 responses.

Would be nice to have further viewpoint by a Wowhead staffer about this, perhaps in another part of these forums?
I was going to make a thread in the Feedback forum about it, but it would be too close to making a thread about an individual person, so I decided not to :P

发布者 Adamsm

So, same things, different wording then?

发布者 Squishalot

I've got friends who just level alts. I have friends who just PvP. I have friends who just PvE. I have friends who just run level 70 stuff. No one but you seems to have any problems with that.

I said nothing of the sort.

Then don't say we if you're not talking about yourself.

Stop dancing around what you're trying to say. Either say it clearly as you actually mean it, or accept us ripping it apart.

I dunno, I found it fairly obvious that Aestu was talking about a 'general community' "we".

It is true though. When heroics started getting difficult, Blizzard was slammed by official forum posts on end-game content being too elitist and exclusive. There is a collective view of entitlement in the general playerbase. There was never that in SC2000, the game just existed.

@ Aestu, in relation to the post:

The primary reason for the difference in mindset is because SC2000 is, inherently, a single player game. The level of competition might extend to your group of friends, but no further. By contrast, an MMORPG has a much larger player base, that is immediately accessible and comparable, and by extension, much more competition for 'success' in the game.

Because the end-game activities are much more visible in WoW, I believe that's what creates the sense of entitlement - they have access to this, why shouldn't I? Launching Arcologies in SC2000 was possible for anyone who was capable of maintaining and growing a city - it'd just take a really long time for people who weren't as good. You'd do things because they're there, because there's no short-term goals on the way to the long-term goal. (Sortof. Daily quest - build 5 Arcologies. Reward: 300,000 citizens!)

The appeal of the MMORPG, especially the ones without paid-for content, is that everybody is supposed to be on an even playing field. We can all be heroes. That's where the newfound sense of entitlement is coming from. That's why Blizzard and other MMO creators make short-term specific goals to help them get there, because people don't have the patience to take the long-term RP approach when they see their friends are all decked out in shiny T11 gear.

The other thing is that we're becoming a time poor society, especially the older generation of gamers who juggle family, work and social commitments. They (we) want faster gratification out of our games. Hence why someone like my brother is happy to play WoW for short bursts in the day, and settle for doing 25 daily quests on his main for cash / rep as his immediate focus.

I disagree. We haven't been horrible to Aestu, we are just struggling to comprehend what he's saying. We don't hate him, but the nature of his post history has granted a generally negative viewpoint of him.

That's not true. If they were struggling to comprehend what he's saying, they'd be saying as much. Adamsm and Sinespe came out guns blazing.

This isn't a pointless thread. People just ran into a wall of text and had their context senses turned off because they saw Aestu's name at the top of the thread.

Aestu's post in a TL;DR:

There has been a culture shift in games from wide open ended, long-term goal games like SC2000 or The Sims, to short-term goal focused games like WoW is now. This is somewhat sad and makes one feel nostalgic for the good old days. (What do you guys think?)

Question in brackets is what Aestu needs to include to make it a worthwhile thread.

发布者 475128

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

发布者 Hyperspacerebel

I dunno, I found it fairly obvious that Aestu was talking about a 'general community' "we".
I provided examples of my experience with the "general community" to help show that to be an illegitimate generalization. Once I get rid of the "others" implied in "we," all that's left is him. So if he didn't mean to include himself, he shouldn't have said "we."

I'm just trying to understand the perspective that others have regarding Aestu.
I think the fable of the boy who cried wolf sums it up.

发布者 Adamsm

I'm just trying to understand the perspective that others have regarding Aestu.
I think the fable of the boy who cried wolf sums it up.

Pretty much.

发布者 Squishalot

I dunno, I found it fairly obvious that Aestu was talking about a 'general community' "we".
I provided examples of my experience with the "general community" to help show that to be an illegitimate generalization. Once I get rid of the "others" implied in "we," all that's left is him. So if he didn't mean to include himself, he shouldn't have said "we."

I know, but that's somewhat anecdotal. At least I can point to all the QQ threads on the official forums to provide evidence in his favour.

发布者 Hyperspacerebel

发布者 475128

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

发布者 irishsnout

I think my head just blowed up from reading this thread. I'm just going to take what I got from it.
sc2k was open ended. Like rollercoaster tycoon. Raiding in wow is like classic atari games. on packman or defender or bezerk, its the same thing over and over. the mazes may change or the bosses get harder but its just repetative. or mabe its a troll. like I said, my head sploded from reading it.

发布者 93865

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

发布者 Hyperspacerebel

HSB, if there is a point you are trying to make in this thread, state it explicitly.

It's rebel, not bastard.

HsR's Point:
Aestu has not presented a coherent argument as of yet. But from that I can glean so far, he appears to be wrong.

发布者 Adamsm

HSB, if there is a point you are trying to make in this thread, state it explicitly.

Irony.

发布者 Squishalot

At least I can point to all the QQ threads on the official forums to provide evidence in his favour.
People don't go cry on the forums if they're okay with something. Random people I know in my WoW circle is actually more of a random selection that picking QQ threads off the forums.

No. Your argument is that there are no people complaining. By definition, the presence of QQers on the forums suggest that there are people complaining. There is no claim being made on the proportion of complainers to non-complainers.

发布者 Hyperspacerebel

Your argument is that there are no people complaining.
Huh?

My argument is that generalizing the community the way he did has no basis. Looking at everyone I know, he's the only one who seems worried about other people not reaching certain levels within the game. That's close to 1% of my sample. Not a percentage very adept to being generalized.

The noob culture, and the playing of WoW

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