The same arguments that hold for Journey's End will hold for this item, too - very good for both cats and hunters, but cats will benefit from the weapon DPS, too.

@Yuka2: Reaching the hit cap isn't that useful for cats, actually. Especially not if you e.g. sacrifice 277 AP (along with the other stats) for 72 hit rating, if you take the example Black Ice <-> Journey's End.
Also, I don't expect to see 2H weapons with a lot of hit on them, Black Ice was for people still lacking hit, in Ulduar-level gear most people will have enough hit from other sources.

Комментарий от 218791

Shock and awe, multiple classes get good use out of the same piece of equipment!

Комментарий от LoreKeeperMobius

IMO great weapon for anyone who can equip it

Комментарий от 254266

This is the link from comparing this polearm with Twisted Visage.

https://www.wowhead.com/cata/compare=45498;45256

The only difference is Armor Penetration and Hit Rating so people will get this items depeding on what they need.

Комментарий от 122372

Great weapon no doubt. I would love to get this on my feral druid :D

Also, a note about armor penetration...they are boosting its effect by 25% come 3.1. Also, keep in mind armor reduction moves (at least sunder armor, faerie fire) decrease boss armor by a percentage, not just some arbitrary static amount.

This is huge, considering that say the bosses armor is reduced by 25% (I think its 5% a sunder), then you have some melee dps with 15% armor pen...this is an additive effect so that means that you will be facing a boss with 40% less armor! Also, keep in mind that haste is being buffed for many classes next patch (melee haste I think) so yeah have fun with these new weaps :D

*P.S. save the "its for hunters only" bs for like thottbot...this is wowhead. If you think it should go to a class...lets say because STR gives 2 ap, or AGI gives more AP then STR for the class, fine. Otherwise, bring it up with your guild leader :D

Комментарий от 214226

There is no point in arguing what class this weapon is designed for, as everyone who reads these forums should already know the stats that the class they play looks for and is able to tell if the weapon is suitable for them or not.

The guild i'm in uses the EPGP system, which means that the amount of effort you put in dictates whether you get the item or not. If you have put in the hard yards and haven't gotten an item in a while and this drops you'll get it if you want it. The only way you lose is if someone has put in more effort and hasn't gotten an item either and wants it.

Комментарий от Fallerup

so, us hunter's get 2 new weapons to play with, what would be better, this or Rune Edge ?

obviosly, we'll have to fight for both, as, well, ferals will want this, and fury warriors the other. they are almost as good. 1 less agi on this one compared with the sword and 1 less crit rating on the sword compared to this, then there is the stamina, the sword has more stamina, meaning more AP for us hunters so I would say the sword is better over all, but I wouldn't pass either to anyone unless I had one or the other.

Комментарий от 305592

According to maxdps.com, an Arms warrior with Poleaxe Specialization and this weapon will actually do more dps than an Arms warrior with Voldrethar and Sword Specialization.
Obviously the large amount of Agi on this weapon means lots of Crit for the warrior, with Poleaxe Specialization helping it even further.

Still though, I'm not sure if I'd roll for it or let a Hunter/Feral Druid take it.

Комментарий от 324197

Aside from the presence of Attack Power instead of Strength, I'm sure most Retribution Paladins would drop a big one in their pants over this polearm. It's slow, it's absolutely loaded with crit (140 Agility AND 87 Crit rating?) and it even has some nice armor penetration for those of us who have been ignoring the stat thus far. Honestly, I think this weapon is great for most every class that typically uses a 2h weapon. And, yes, this includes Hunters. I'd hate to see such high core DPS go to waste on a non-melee class, but the stats on this polearm are great for them.

Комментарий от 242421

Rune Edge is a Sword.

But anyways, a good percentage of PVE warriors will be dpsing as arms come patch. Arms atm does more damage, and probably will until Fury warriors start duel wielding Voldrethars.

This Polearm is BiS for Arms. Sword spec is useless. And the best Axe is itemized too heavily with Expertise. This item doesnt have all that much AP, but has a boat load of Crit. Arms tends to favor high Crit over AP stacking(at least up to 50% crit raid buffed for 100% crit overpowers).

I like this logic :) i fully entirely agree! </3 expertise... </3 sword spec.. <3 crit!

just like trazox was saying,
arms isnt really about AP stacking... the 5% crit dmg bonus from axe spec (and 3% one from meta gem), coupled with a huge crit chance %, makes for very good dps... + you never run out of rage if you crit on practically every white swing...

AP stacking is for fury... (bloodthirst scales with AP so you can get like 5-7k bloodthirst crits) and giant whirlwind dmg etc blah rocket science... :)

Комментарий от 230590

Betrayer 2.0, ideally a hunter weapon but any melee would want it as well

but unlike before, there are actually better or equivalent weapons but itemized for STR based classes like Voldrethar, Dark Blade of Oblivion (2h word) which is actually higher dps than this

Worldcarver (2h axe) if you are looking for a weapon with the same dps/item level :)

Комментарий от 101660

as for other comment, any retri or arms warrior (do those even raid lol) is complete moron, you have weapons with same lvl that have STR on it

That's a pretty ignorant blanket statement. The stats on this weapon are better than any other weapon with strength. It's very common for agi-based hunter/rogue itemization to be superior for warriors over strength-based itemization, since all strength-based dps gear only gets 3 dps stats instead of 4, which leads to less overall stats due to the workings of the itemization formula(see: "of strength" compared to "of the tiger" gear for example). This is easily the BiS weapon for Arms at this point in time(which will be a superior raiding spec to Fury post-3.1). You shouldn't comment on things you know nothing about.

Комментарий от 324804

Personally, I'm getting a little offended by all the anti hunter chatter going on. There are good hunters, and there are HunTARDs. Hunters know what items are good for them and are considerate of what other classes can you use. HunTARDs think everything is for them and they don't care about the stats/top end.

In our guild we use a closed bidding dkp system. We do have stipulations on items though. For instance Betrayer of Humanity. It is a viable hunter weapon. However, This weapon is given to Fury/Arms, Retadin and DK's as Main spec priority, Which means nobody else can bid this item until the above classes have it. I was happy with this decision. The item isn't that great for hunters. In fact its a very minimal upgrade over the Journey's End off KT. 30 more crit rating on the betrayer. Bleh minimal. The staff is a much better choice. Now if you can't get your hands on the staff, Then try and get the staff off Malygos. Great for Hunters, Low top end and great stats to boot.

Now back to this topic. This weapon is the ideal hunter weapon, I'm sure people are going to fight with me tooth and nail over this, but lets look at some statistics. Blizzard finally did something right this patch. They made GREAT polearms/staves/swords/axes. They made them great because they gave the said weapon types STR or AGI, Very few if any have both on 1 weapon. This is nice because being an officer myself. This makes the items easier to decide who to go to. The downside to the weapons this patch. They all have an amazing top end. This makes it a little rough. So what we decided to do was .. Priority is given on the weapon to the class that gets the most out of the base stats. Now lets use this weapon as an example. This would be a druid/hunter staff. However, We run with very few hunters/druids. If the 2 classes decide to pass and think its better for someone who has a terrible weapon. They can opt to give it away and wait for one at a later time. This takes place usually in our guild. Rarely are their loot fights between the classes. Our raid leader has the final say.

On an ending note, This particular weapon in my opinion should be Druid/Hunter (maybe DK tank) Priority, There are so many GREAT weapons in Ulduar. Especially Voldrethar for all the 2h Melee DPS. Yes, I understand its off the General on HARD. But lets be serious. Did anyone really find any of the content remotely close to HARD on PTR? I didn't think so either. Sure they may buff it a little or they may reduce it, Fact is, All of this hard and normal will be on farm in 2 months anyway. All the weapons with STR and STA on them and high top ends, should be reserved for the classes that need them, This includes DK Tanks. Don't forget that your tanks need an extremely high top end item. Remember this hunters. Not every item belongs to you because you can use it. Remember that you don't do all the dps in your raids and other people can use those items just as well if not better, dependent on top end and stats of course. Share the loot. We all play MMO's so we don't have to play alone.

Airburst
Risen - Thunderhorn

Комментарий от Alkore

Again playing Devil's Advocate here, this item is actually quite well itemized for a DPS Blood DK, seeing as they will benefit in 3.1 massively from ArP and crit.

Комментарий от 92011

This is currently the best DPS-weapon for feral druids. The best tanking weapon is https://www.wowhead.com/cata/item=45256

Комментарий от 253397

I'm probably going to be flamed for even saying this. But! this weapon is awsome for arms warriors!

This weapon is my current top choise (unknowing of what drops more in ulduar, cept Worldcarver), compared to the Worldcarver this is a way supperior choise, mainly because I'm already exptertise capped, and haste aint really the best stat for warriors.

Комментарий от Ludrin

Because str is always the way forward? :D

Комментарий от Hulaw

This is a much better weapon than BoH (More DPS for one) so please do not fill these forums with garbage.

All depends on the person using it and their current gear set.

Compare BoH and this you end up with a whopping 39 high end dmg (6dps) at the cost of 66 AP and 80 ArP plus 54 agi at the cost of 57 haste. All depends on what you need. If you are low on crit then the pole arm is right up your alley, if you want haste then stick with the BoH.

Just learn to understand that opinions are like a$$holes, everyone's got one and everyone else's stinks...

For myself this is a side grade atm, I could use the ArP over my BoH but otherwise its a giant meh lol

Комментарий от 354673

Okay seriously? Does everyone forget that Paladins can use polearms too? Like, come on... they even have a quest for Polearms...
Okay so i wouldn't go as far to say that they should be rolling for this weapon to use over others that drop in Ulduar, but it would still be a side-grade to most Paladin's weapons. Well sure, the AP gain from this weapon compaired to other weapons would be less, but the Agility would equal more critical chance. Plus lets face it, whats the chances a Paladin would have a weapon with higher Max damage then this walking into Ulduar? Remember this people, the higher the Max damage on a Ret Paladins weapon, the better the Proc on Seal of Command.

Комментарий от Myriani

Here we go again, the polearm discussion with Hunters.

It's a top-notch 2-hander that an Arms Warrior, Ret Pally, or any DK will want. With the recent Feral changes, they will want it too, as Feral talents/mechanics allow them to see the same type of DPS gains with their 2-hander upgrade as other melee classes.

Yes, it's a statistical upgrade to Hunters too, but they don't get priority on this when Melee classes see better gains.

For a cat DPS, Twisted Visage and Lotrafen are extremely close, it comes down to the +hit on Visage vs. Lotrafen's Armor Pen. It's an extremely tough call on which to use, but the staff drops significantly earlier in the instance and hit capping is still important to ensure your specials land and your rotation doesn't suffer.

Комментарий от Anarchy

This polearm provides 4.2% crit for a ret paladin.
That's a huge amount from 1 slot.

Комментарий от formanelol

flehrfyeiuartgerqjdsqdfsdqsd

Комментарий от 355012

"Lotrafen". Sounds like a psychotherapeutic drug. "The Spear of the Damned should be used by prescription only. Side effects may include increased dps, envious glances from guildies, and death due to constantly pulling aggro off under-greared tanks."

Комментарий от 363629

The two thing that makes this weapon so useful for arms warriors is

1. poleaxe spec. Getting an extra 5% crit makes this vastly superior to any similar ilvl weapon... (the +agi and +crit, and this talent gives almost 8% crit to an arms warrior from this weapon)

2. The stat itemization. The fact that most the other weapons that are usable for arms warriors are heavy on hit or other stats that we are already capped on, makes this itemization great.

Armor pen actually benefits warriors more than any other class in the game considering that a large % of our damage output is melee attacks that factor in armor, not other attacks that ignore armor. (this is why mace spec is now a viable option for arms warriors)

To say that this weapon is too low on AP for a warrior is kind of dumb, because every class that would want this weapon is also looking for AP, and infact arms warriors favor crit before AP anyways.

to say that this weapon should go to a hunter/druid is kinda selfish and not in best interest of the guild/raid... its the equivalent of saying BoH should go to a hunter do to lack of strength.

Комментарий от elvin

...until Fury warriors start duel wielding Voldrethars

The funny thing is, Furies are actually less dependent on a weapon damage than Arms. About 90% of Arms damage is weapon-based, as opposed to about 65% of Fury.

Комментарий от 366600

1.0802 Lotrafen, Spear of the Damned
1.0633 Twisted Visage
1.0327 Furious Gladiator's Greatstaff
1.0164 Furious Gladiator's Crusher
1.0164 Furious Gladiator's Halberd
1.0093 Earthshaper
1.0000 Journey's End
0.9888 Tortured Earth
0.9666 Furious Gladiator's Staff
0.9522 Furious Gladiator's Bonegrinder

you could add dreambinder to the top of your list.

Комментарий от 309284

This weapon is pretty much BiS for an arms warrior... which sucks since the stats are desirable by everyone who can use it.

The only other weapon that beats it is the S6 Arena Axe, but good luck getting to 2200+ ratings with PVE gear.

EDIT: Now that they changed the speed of several weapons, this is no longer BiS.

Комментарий от 127511

BiS for arms warriors(other than the PVP weapons). The massive amount of crit is one thing, but the Armor Pen is as valuable if not more valuable than strength point for point as Arms Dps. If you swapped the AP and ArPen for 165 strength, then could they roll/bid on it? of course, well thats what its equivalent to. I think Ret pallies would be a little less inclined since they benefit less from ArPen because they have less physical dmg (large portion holy) although they get more crit out of agil so I could be wrong.

Комментарий от 142549

what a noob.

this weapon is BiS for arms unless you can get hold of the s6 axe, like genome said.

Комментарий от 260739

As far as I'm concerned, all DPS has equivalent priority on DPS weapons. Healers and tanks can override this queue in some disputed items, for their own specs naturally. Feral tanks and prot warriors wanting this for their l33t PvP set can stuff it til everyone who will use it in the raid has one first.

The exception is if they suck ass or have a better weapon easily in reach. If the guy is below the tanks, then there's no way he's getting this stick vs. someone who knows what's up. Likewise, I'm not going to pass this out to someone who's going to upgrade it with something off an earlier farm boss. I could care less for the "But the upgrade didn't drop. This has dropped now" argument. A 15% droprate (or higher chance for hardmode loot- smaller table, higher chance between them) is hardly a Zulian Tiger or Headmaster's Charge.

Hunter, ret, kitty, warrior, hell, death knight, whatever... they're all DPS to me. Some DPS in your raid will get this weapon. Their DPS increases. Your raid's DPS increases. Who cares exactly where the weapons and armor go? Does personal DPS matter at all? It is the sum of all parts, the raid's total DPS that matters. One person isn't greater than the whole, it's why you need 24 people. In that regard, the only way to lose is if the person who got the upgrade takes off for greener pa$ture$.

Комментарий от HorusHeresy

I took this as a minor (and I do mean minor) upgrade to Rune Edge. https://www.wowhead.com/cata/item=45233 If you can't aim for this with your guild. Rune Edge works fine.

Комментарий от 429113

i just have to say this, no offence to anyone or anything; HUNTER WEAPON!
anyways, it'll be decided by dkp or EpGp or lootcouncil or whatever-i'm just saying that it's the BiS for Survival AND MM hunters( which everyone should be going after a certain % of ArP) as long as you're hit-capped. Getting Twisted Visage is however the best addition for hit-needing hunters as myself

Комментарий от 445231

Can i equip two of those or one and other 2 hander?

Комментарий от Elf22

Look at it! Will you just look at it? Pure awesomeness on a perfect shaped stick PRAISE THE LORD!

Комментарий от Ferran

Loved this weapon during Ulduar, used it on my Blood tank DK for a while (our rets etc were getting STR weapons and didn't have too many agi users) so i happily equipped this. Dranei have pretty dumb run animations but I liked the polearm swings and the weapon has quite a cool name.

Комментарий от cutterx2202

The haste used to be armor penetration.

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