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How the devs decide who to buff and who to nerf (long and serious)
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Post by
Azrile
I think it is important for players to step back and see the big picture that the devs are using when balancing DPS. The most important thing to remember with buffs and nerfs to pve damage is that the devs are trying to accomplish at least 4 different goals at the same time.
1.
Are spells bugged?
- Sounds simple, but in the big picture, it can cause problems. What if a spec is currently overpowered, but has a bug that if fixed, will increase their DPS? Clearly the devs want every spell to be coded the way it was designed, but you can´t fix a bug that increases damage to an overpowered spec without compensating elsewhere.
2.
Are players using spells and stats the way the developers want them to?
Is heroic strike far better than bloodthirst and raging blow in every situation? Obviously that is a problem. Is a certain spec ALWAYS reforging a certain stat because it is nearly useless, that is a problem. Like it or not, the devs do have a design in mind for how you use your spells. If a spell is not being used that they want used, then they will change it. Same way with stats.. in the developers mind, there should be no ´no brainer' when it comes to reforging, except maybe for hit if you are under the cap.
3.
How is the spec doing overall on the dps charts?
There are huge amounts of guilds that are raiding and the data is coming in, in large amounts. At this point in the expansion, it is fairly easy to see which specs are on the high side in damage and which are on the low side. From just looking at the major fansites, it appears 22k to 24k is probably the ´target range´ right now. Some fights will be hard on certain specs, others will be easier. But if you look at the overall charts for all raid bosses, about 10 dps specs fall in that 22k to 24k range.. a handful are higher, and handful are lower. The good thing is, if you look at the individual boss encounters, the same handful of specs are higher for every boss, and the same handful are lower for every boss, which means nerf-buff is in order. If a spec is topping the charts against only one boss, but is average on the other bosses, it is not an issue that will probably be fixed by adjusting the spec.
4.
Affect on PvP
The devs certainly do not care about 1v1 fights, but they probably have an eye on arena team representation and have a general idea which specs are strong in PvP. There are probably a few specs where they struggle to buff pve dps because the class is already strong in PvP. You can see how they kept this in mind with Frost mages, who were low on the pve dps charts, but are one of the strongest pvp specs. In order to buff PvE dps, the devs nerfed a bit some of their burst damage spells and synergies, but at the same time greatly buffed one of their major spells that is used much more frequently in PvE. The net result is probably a fairly significant boost to PvE DPS, and a small or insignificant nerf to PvP burst damage.
So here is what the devs probably do. They start at #1.. and they note any spell that is bugged. For instance, starfall was bugged for Moonkin, and giving them too much damage. The devs probably then looked at how moonkin were doing overall and noticed they were in the top 5 of every boss fight. So fixing that bug probably will help balance moonkin.
Then they go to #2 and ask.. are moonkin using the spells the way we want them to? (yes) and are they using their stats on items fairly equally (a big no, since every moonkin was reforging mastery into something else). So now they have some choices.. they could nerf haste (the prefered stat) or they could buff mastery. Nerfing haste is dangerous because it is extremely complicated within a moonkin rotation as it affects so much. In this case, they chose to buff mastery to make it more appealing.
So now you get to # 3... are moonkin overpowered. The answer is yes, on every boss fight they are consistently in the top 5 of dps and they are #2 overall. They are also well above the 22k to 24k range that the majority of specs were at.
So now they looked at the changes they made so far. They nerfed Starfall by fixing a bug (probably less than a 1% overall nerf), they buffed Mastery to make it more desirable (probably a 3% buff)... so with those two changes, Moonkin are at plus 2%, when in fact, they needed about a 3% nerf to be in line with other specs. So that is the final decision the devs made.. they nerfed the passive ability that granted a 15% bonus to all spells down to 10%... which means that moonkin are getting -1% , +3%, -5% or a 3% nerf overall, which accomplished all four of of the designer goals. They fixed bugs, they encouraged players to use all stats and the desired spells and they brought the overall spec in line with other classes without messing with moonkins pvp situation.
It is easy to look at things in a vacuum and wonder if the devs made a mistake. For instance, if you looked at moonkin on the dps charts and saw they were #2, then you see they got a 33% buff to their mastery stat, you might be confused. This is further confusing for players because patch and hotfix notes come in spurts, and you might not see the nerf in the same list as you see the buff.
About PTR and why these hotfixes are coming so fast and furious
. PTR is worthless at this point for balancing DPS. Major guilds are simply not going to raid in a meaningful way on a PTR when they are also doing it on the regular servers. Very little ´real´ testing would be done. Like I said regarding ´haste´with the moonkin... this is probably one of the reasons they didn´t nerf haste (to make mastery more attractive).. that change would be very complicated and could really mess with players on the live servers. Buffing mastery and then nerfing the passive is a much much more predictable way to accomplish their 3 goals.
Post by
Ritmas
tl;dr
I agree.
Post by
Interest
Wow. Someone finally thinks logically rather than letting their pride get in the way.
Agreed.
Post by
127599
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
mindthegap5
Agreed.
Post by
338102
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Azrile
you should post this in the WoW forums, its very good
haha, I just did. As I suspected, the first two replies didn´t read my post and just said that the devs nerf classes that beat their mains in pvp.
Post by
784503
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
124027
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
NeoBlackheart
I almost want to request this stickied just so everyone else that comes and goes QQ my class got nerfed. Or QQ this spell got nerfed but they buffed me otherwise... yeah requesting sticky now.
Post by
Cambo
you should post this in the WoW forums, its very good
I agree, but I'd also lol if they get banned.
Post by
buzz3070
You my good sir are awesome.
Now to see what a dev says to this on the official forums.
Post by
Amry
No, OP is totally wrong.
Devs nerfed <insert your class here> because they are talentless hacks who are out to get you personally. They are jealous of your awesome DPS (or healing... or threat generation) that is earning you accolades in your realm and making the ladies moist and wanting. Clearly, you are far more qualified to design <insert your class here> rather than a bunch of people paid to play all day and fiddle with "mathematics" and "balance".
Post by
Interest
No, OP is totally wrong.
Devs nerfed <insert your class here> because they are talentless hacks who are out to get you personally. They are jealous of your awesome DPS (or healing... or threat generation) that is earning you accolades in your realm and making the ladies moist and wanting. Clearly, you are far more qualified to design <insert your class here> rather than a bunch of people paid to play all day and fiddle with "mathematics" and "balance".
I laughed because this is obviously sarcasm.
Post by
Azrile
You my good sir are awesome.
Now to see what a dev says to this on the official forums.
The thread has already drifted to obscurity on the main forums. Two replies stating that devs buffed-nerfed based on their own characters.. and that was it. I generally avoid all the official forums because it is impossible to learn anything of have a conversation.
Post by
475128
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Sweetscot
While I usually agree with who the devs buff/nerf and why they are being buffed/nerfed I think they tend to overbuff/overnerf...sure if we're talking massive differences between classes (3.0 pally anyone?) then yes you need to make a big change, but I think that more often they go overboard. Overall I do agree with your post.
Post by
atomicwolf22
Great Post.
I would love to see one of the Dev's reply to this on the WoW Forums. Just to see what they have to say about it. (Fact Checker Anyone?)
Post by
524425
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
I love it when people complain about how Blizzard always nerfs their spec because it means they're fotm rollers. I'm sorry for all my $%^&*ing about Unholy, I dropped like 4k DPS on a target dummy and got scared, it was fine in a raid.
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