Varian Wrynn? He's a ferocious combatant and survivor.He's not a very good king. Good kings put aside their personal issues when they conflict with the welfare of their people. King Wrynn has convinced himself that his personal issues are for the good of his people.On the other side, the Alliance has a superior structure, and Thrall is losing control of the Horde. I admire Thrall, but he may be an example of 'too little, too late' when trying to reform his people. I can see Thrall, old but not weak, forced into hiding by a usurpation by Garrosh, wondering what went wrong, and trying to work through the orc shamans to try and salvage something.And for all those who call humans xenophobic; the very continued existence of orcs as a race prove you wrong.
I played alliance on release way back in 04, switched to horde in fall 06 just before tbc and never looked back. But I remember going through the defias chains in the deadmines, finding out about the king being kidnapped. Seriously the alliance quests are 10x more cool than the horde starter ones just because the lore seems so much more extensive.Varian seems ok to me except that he is nothing like I pictured. When I thought of the noble alliance king kidnapped by defias, he is not the guy I thought of. He seems a lot like the original arthas, hotheaded young warrior, not a king of an entire race.I think a young Arthas is the perfect comparison to Varian. C'mon, even the people that like him must see the similarities! And I'm sure Blizz said somewhere that they want to steer us back on course of the Horde and Alliance in open war.... Maybe it's just me, but I don't actually want this. Yes, I'm sure there are gallons of PvPers and such who would be delighted by that, but I for one play this game mainly for PvE, as I'm sure a lot of people do, and even when I do PvP, I don't specifically hate the Horde, I just hate the players :P Save a few specifics, (That young orc dude and Sylvanas :P) I generally find the Horde's NPCs to be honourable and good-hearted, Thrall in particular. Bolvar and Saurfang junior seemed to get along well..... And they were some of the best NPCs either side had :D Why can't we all just get along lke them in peace and harmony? :P
The way Varian is now makes me want to actually have been able to interact w/ him before he was kidnapped. The way he his now makes it seem like only a crazy fool would dare even attempt what the Defias did.But the fact is that Blizzard had to do something with him. They couldn't just leave him locked up. And the way he is now is a result of what happend to him after he escaped. He was made to fight for his life & he blamed Thrall for all of it. Being forced to become this blood thirsty fighter is going to make him an aggresive ruler.And you have to keep in mind that he blames Thrall for Bolovar Fordragon's death. Thrall made the alliance with Sylvannas, who made the allince with Putress. The fact that nobody knew Putress would betray both factions is irrelevant in Varian's eyes, becase of the way he sees Thrall. Thrall may as well shoved a blade through Bolovar's heart himself.I do agree that it seems forced. But it makes sense. You should actually blame Blizzard for making the Intro to Uldar about Varian's conflict with Thrall.
10/10 just for mentioning Yahtzee and Zero Punctuation.
I read all the story behind Varian Wrynn when my server was down, the beginning is full of gaps of how he escaped but when you read more about his return to sw you can see that he escaped when Onyxia was fighting the naga, I'm not gonna xplain totally how that happened.. you just have to have the "nerve" or w/e to read it all by yourself.
Its all because of the Second War and the so called Old Hatreds.Varian is guided by his own experiences in the arena and the old thoughs of the war.His stance towards the orcs (and the Horde) are the same of the members of the Old Alliance (Daelin is one)
I hate Varian Wrynn. He is a badly written character, bad backstory, bad characterization.But I hate Garrosh even more and that's saying something. He is written even worse than Wrynn, at least with Wrynn there's a semblance of an explanation for what he's doing etc. But with Garrosh we have absolutely zero explanation where his sudden irrational aggressive behavior comes from.In Outland he was this crybaby and now in Wotlk he's like overloaded with adrenalin, hating on everyone and everything. On Thrall, his father's best friend and only connection to him. Especially on the Alliance for which he has no f*cking reason to as he had no contact to them prior to BC.
The way Varian is now makes me want to actually have been able to interact w/ him before he was kidnapped. The way he his now makes it seem like only a crazy fool would dare even attempt what the Defias did.He was a nice guy before that happened.But with Garrosh we have absolutely zero explanation where his sudden irrational aggressive behavior comes from.He's a teen with something to prove.
I think its a harsh criticism, and I think a lot of it stems from a lore fanatic being upset that there is new lore being added to a story people are becoming familiar with. This goes for a lot of changes people don't like in lore.i mean, why get upset with a simple nick name orcs gave to varian.And I don't see much evidence to call varian a Thrall clone. What I see with this character is a switch of roles that the orcs and humans have. Humans (or I should say their leadership aka Varian) is becoming increasingly blind and hostile, while the orcs are becoming increasingly enlightened and diplomatic, excluding Garrosh of course.As much as i don't like Varian for the character he is, I really don't see much being forced into the story and am starting to like how its progressing.In all, maybe I missed the point, but
Could Wrynn have been introduced more smoothly into the story, sans ham-fisted retcons and whatnot? Probably, yeah.Is he needed? YEAH, most definitely. This game's called World of WARcraft, my ladies and gentlemen. And there's been a suspicious lack of WAR for the last half-decade or so Worst argument ever, and it gets progressively worse every time I hear it. Yes, it's called world of warcraft. But you know what? Worlds change. Wars cannot go on indefinitely. And when you have faced down demons, gone to other planets, and destroyed entire legions of hideous monsters, that tauren doesn't seem like such a bad guy because he has been fighting the same damn demons and undead and monsters beyond time and space you have.It's time for the world to change. If you want a war, go play WC3. I want to group up with my friends and save the world from the horrors lurking in the folds between realities. I'd be perfectly happy if they made a separate realm with no pvp at all, where the horde and alliance have made amends and are one united force against the burning legion/old gods/muffin man/whatever is threatening our existence.
I'd be perfectly happy if they made a separate realm with no pvp at all, where the horde and alliance have made amends and are one united force against the burning legion/old gods/muffin man/whatever is threatening our existence.Exactly, lore wise, war wasn't making any sense as of tBC, the idea of PvP was dying. There had to be a moron somewhere who screwed it up.
Having never leveled a Hordie past level 22 I know little of Garrosh during tbc but wouldn't it make sense that now he hates humans and by some small extension Thrall for what happened to his father during the wrath gate? That somehow maybe Thrall caused his death?You know the same way Wyrnn hates the orcs even though he has been told they weren't killed by the Horde but by a betrayal from within but the pain still remains that someone they both loved is dead and they don't know who to take their rage out on.
I know little of Garrosh during tbc but wouldn't it make sense that now he hates humans and by some small extension Thrall for what happened to his father during the wrath gate? lolwut?
Bawwwwwww why would anyone hate the Horde? Its only a collection of horrible misfits, undead abominations, and magic junkies assembled under the war banner of a race of alien invaders that sacked and burned the southern kingdoms after making a pact with demons. Everywhere they go ruin follows them. Oh wait, that's why.The Alliance has been too complacent with the threat of the Horde. Jaina is a traitor to humanity. Varian is a voice of reason that has been lacking in Alliance leadership.
Bawwwwwww why would anyone hate the Horde? Its only a collection of horrible misfits, undead abominations, and magic junkies assembled under the war banner of a race of alien invaders that sacked and burned the southern kingdoms after making a pact with demons. Everywhere they go ruin follows them. Oh wait, that's why.The Alliance has been too complacent with the threat of the Horde. Jaina is a traitor to humanity. Varian is a voice of reason that has been lacking in Alliance leadership.I'm pretty sure they were being controlled by someone (Can't remember which one - There's a lot of baddies in this game :P) when they invaded. And then Hellscream broke them from their bonds but died in the process D:
Personally, I think it's about time the allies got a leader who does something.I haven't read the comics or anything along those lines (played warcraft 3 though), but in game, I hardly even know who leads the other races.As awkwardly as they popped him in there, he's successfully made the alliance interesting, (Think of how many people like/hate him in this thread)Either you can join the alliance and the horde in a big hippy love fest, or you can add fuel to the fire and give them reasons to fight again. (Guess which I'm hoping for...Horde scum :)In closing... think what you want, he could be worse, imagine if he looked like every other basic human, dressed in basic clothes, and said "Light be with you." everytime you clicked on him...
Having never leveled a Hordie past level 22 I know little of Garrosh during tbc but wouldn't it make sense that now he hates humans and by some small extension Thrall for what happened to his father during the wrath gate? That somehow maybe Thrall caused his death?You know the same way Wyrnn hates the orcs even though he has been told they weren't killed by the Horde but by a betrayal from within but the pain still remains that someone they both loved is dead and they don't know who to take their rage out on.Some serious confushion on your part here. The orc that died at the wrathgate was suarfang's sun, you know the guy that stands arguing with him in warsong hold and used to WTFPWN entire org raids in a single cleave back before they moved him. Yeah, that guy.Gorrash's father died in WC3 removing the curse from the orcs, (it's that that makes them have green skin and made them act so evil in previous years). Garosh however didn't know that and since it was garrosh's fathers fualt that the whole orc race got the curse in the first place garrosh was ashamed of his father and unsure of his abilities till thrall came to OL and showed him what really happened to his father. Thats got him all fiered up and no he's hacking at everything in sight.Realy the issue here is, GARROSH ISN'T A MAJOR RULER. He only has to compare to people like the one heading up the various villiages and towns throughtout azeroth and OL and Northend. He may be a better fighter, but he's never had to rule anytbing more complex than that. Compare him to any of them and he's pretty run of the mill, even semi major commanders of the past, (Suarfang and Bolvar aside), haven't shown any exceptionol rulership abilities. Gorrash just dosen't have anytbing to live up to.VARYIANN DOES. He's got people like Tirion, Jaina, Thrall, and Roinn to name the most obvious ones who all show more wisdom than him.Let's also not play around here, unless the WowWiki Summaries for WC3 are very bad, (never played it;)) JAINA was the leader of the alliance. When Varyiann breezes back in he seemingly deposses her and takes over as de-facto head speaker. Thats automaticly going to put a lot of fans noses WELL out of joint.Now if they'd handled it as Varyiann coming bk as this aggressive but resnoblly wise king, (sort of an aggressive tirion/roinn figure), and then have him promote some underling for some resnoble reason and place them in a position of power and then have that underling and Garrosh get them into a war, it would have been acceptable. It would have been vanillia WoW all over again. None of the leaders want to fight each other, but the underlings aren't giving them much choice.They could also have brought him bk as a scarlet crusade style figure, utterly nasty but doing it simply because he belives it's whats best for his people. But Varion clearly isn't, he using littile event's here and there to justify listning to a personol desire to go after the horde because of how they treated him. Take a look at the diary of high general abbedenis if you want an example of what i mean, (warning it contains some major info and is very long, be prepeared fror a lengthy read),
But then you'd end up hating the underling.Someone's going to be hated either way.
Wrynn, in my opinion, was hastily "shoehorned" into the game, but, he does help strengthen the idea that (most) of the Alliance hates the Horde. I mean, there were two wars (I think, if I'm wrong, someone please correct me.) against the Horde, and alot of peoples' lives on BOTH sides were changed drastically because of this. And now, while things are kind of slowing down on both sides, we still fight the horde on a constant basis (battlegrounds). With Wrynn back in the royale saddle, and with this "Garrosh" person lurking around in Thrall's throneroom, something tells me that old rivalries are going to be rekindled to an extent that war cannot be stopped. Who knows, maybe the next expansion will involve us in an all-out war? Now that actually sounds kind of cool, in my opinion, constant battle on places even BIGGER than wintergrasp. Anyone else interested?Now, as for comparison with other leaders, I'm not gonna start, because Magni has already won that argument. :D
Varian Wrynn? He's a ferocious combatant and survivor.He's not a very good king. Good kings put aside their personal issues when they conflict with the welfare of their people. King Wrynn has convinced himself that his personal issues are for the good of his people.This is the key to the issue: Wrynn might be a good man (albeit a hothead) but he is a terrible monarch. Here, at least, it's very true that he is an "anti-Thrall", as Thrall is very nearly the platonic ideal of the monarch; slow to anger, quick to forgive, concerned with justice and strong in action. After the Wrathgate incident, what does Thrall say as he contremplates the death of his men and betreyal from within? "I was a Warchief who made decisions that best served his people", his regret is that the events will undo all the peacemaking he had attempted.What are Wrynn's words after the same incident?For too long have the Horde been left unchecked. We allowed their territories to prosper and in return for our generosity they plotted and planned our demise.Peace? Useless... It's gotten us nowhere. We have lost some of our greatest heroes to "peace." Let us see what battle brings..Not exactly the words of a noble King.Moving on to the meta-issue of whether Wrynn is actually a good character: it's hard to say that he is. In addition to all the convolutions that the blog mentions, there is the simple fact that while there is a plausible reason for Garros' unchecked belligerence, it's totally out of keeping whith the established lore to imagine that the other leaders of the Alliance would support Wrynn in this kind of adventurism.Seriously, are we to believe that Prophet Velen the multi-millennium old leader of a war ravaged people would blindly throw the remnants of his people into a war because Wrynn says so? For that matter, it's hard to imagine Velen or Tyrande having any regard for Wrynn's council or leadership; logically, why should these ancient and powerful leaders of ancient and powerful races give a fig what Wrynn says or care where he leads? He's not even the uncontested controller of the Alliance (remember Lady Proudmore and Thereamore?); if Wrynn wants to go on adventures in war with the Horde, the Kalimdoor contingent of the Alliance (the Night Elves, the Draenai and the Humans and High Elves of Thereamore) can simply break off from Wrynn. Neither the Night Elves nor the Draenai have historical ties to the Alliance, Tyrande has a personal relation with Proudmore and it;s not difficult to imagine Velen preferring Proudmore's style of peacemaking. At least a passing argument can be made about Magni and Mekkatorque having historical ties to the Alliance, but it's still hard to imagine them being all that eager for war with the Horde (Mekkatorque especially).That's the biggest problem with Wrynn; that it's transparent that he exists to ratchet up the tension with the Horde, the problem is that it makes so very little sense given the evolution of the Warcraft world over the last 4 years. At this point in the lore, at least 3 of the 5 Horde racial leaders are inclined towards peace or downright mystic in outlook (Thrall, Bloodhoof and Vol'jin), and both Lady Sylvanas and Regent Theron, while not so pacifistic in nature, are firmly locked in their desire for revenge against Arthas first and foremost. Face it, while it may be called "World of Warcraft", at this point reverting to out and out war would involve completely rewriting the nature of the world that has been build up.