MY game is probably much like yours. My not so little shaman runs around being awesome making money and occasionally (when I remember) tossing out totems. He wants to do everything for everyone yay!
Yeah, I wrote about something similar back in the For the Horde post, talking about choosing to imagine my Diablo character as a working man rather than as a hero. But you're very right – when I'm playing WoW these thoughts never occur to me. I never even got far enough to decide that I didn't like the story – WoW just didn't grab me on that level. I wonder why?
WoW doesn't have the alignment mechanic. None of the NPCs care if you're good or evil, just if you're Ally or Horde. Even then, the majority of the ones we interact with (in northrend particularly) don't care. Um... I think that's why. Oh wait, also... if you chose to only do the 'good' or 'evil' deeds outlined in quests, you wouldn't get very far, as the majority of quests in the game don't fall into a definitive 'good' or 'evil' category.
“Hey, we need another person for Naxx, you in?”“Eh, I don't know. Diabolocles, Tormentor of Children, was really kinda hoping to throw in with the Lich King, and the Lich King probably wouldn't like it if I went around killing his dudes...”I can guarantee that the Lich King won't give 2 cents about what you did in the past, especially after he corrupts you, wipes your memories and sends you to your death.>.>
While I was amused by the "killing his dudes" bit, there's a pretty darn good reason why there aren't any alignment-specific quests for the most part. The Horde is not evil. I said this in the For the Horde post, and I'm saying it here, too. I'm so tired of everyone acting like the Alliance = Good and Horde = Bad. It's not black and white, people. Go look up some of the things the precious alliance has done in the past before you hammer out such clear roles for everyone. Lern 2 Lore.
I'm sure if there was alignment quests, they'd be scattered on both factions. Nothing was said that Horde is evil and Alliance is good. He merely mentioned that the lack of moral to the stories might be clearer on horde quests than alliance quests, but he clearly can't tell as he plays only horde.So keep your shorts on.
IMO the Alliance is just as "evil" as the Horde... Thrall's new Horde is about starting fresh, free of the corruption that the Legion held over them. The alliance on the other hand is unwilling to forgive and move on. Just head to Theramore and listen to some of the guards talking... Even King Wyrnn is war mongering. But that is beside the point, every quest in the game (that I have seen) is about personal gain.I play on an RP server, knowing your lore is important. My character is based off of the Scarlet Crusade (which, in my opinion, is filled with great lore). Bring the light, comrades.
I think, firstly, that if you're a human (or dwarf or NE or gnome etc) and you've been at war with orcs (and their allies) then yes, they are evil. If you apply modern philosophical conventions and look at things from an orc point of view, then sure, this is a race of humanoids just trying to live their own lives. However, in terms of WoW, I doubt many humans sympathize with the idea of equal rights for orcs. Secondly, and this is all hypothetical because I doubt Blizzard is going to go back and change it now, I've always thought it would make for an interesting dynamic if you could determine your faction (Alliance vs. Horde) by what quests you do and who you build up your reputation with. Are you a human that longs to betray your fellow man and throw your lot in with Thrall? Are you a tauren that thinks that siding with the horde is wrong and longs to study in Stormwind with the finest human scholars? I think as far as it goes, a human that sides with the orcs is far more evil in the eyes of other humans, than an orc that's just being an orc.
I think WoW would be... interesting, at least, if it had some sort of alignment that could dramatically change things like factions, quests, etc. but this would be very difficult to do for obvious reasons (who wants to wait for double the content to be made?)But I've been thinking about playing on an RP server for a while now... the idea of just being closer to the lore sounds really fun, even if the gameplay itself (as far as quests and things) don't really change.But if any of this was really implemented, I would never have left the Scourge on my DK :D
hello,Thanks SBMrClean, this was a very good read. I have felt this before, wished that there is more choices open for us players, to choose those certain factions like the scarlet crusade or the various pirate groups, maybe venture Co. too! ( i cant remember all those factions, but wish of a list that set the numerous factions that we are not able to join/gain reputation with).One question will arise though, how can you be a forsaken member and yet be able to ally yourself with the scarlet crusade for example? this sort of irrationality will be hard to fix, as the scarlet crusade in the end is a zealot organization. But in the end, blizzard have done well in twisting the lore, so its not impossible to make this happen!About the subject of horde is evil and alliance is good. I would like to say that there is a good number of evil horde quests, i may have not done all the horde quests, but there is this 2 quiet evil quests in stonetalon mountain, the one that a blood give you to kill keeper of the groves, dryads and druids (because they are breaking the flow of magic) it seems to me as evil as a drug addict who killed a police man for cutting the drug supply away from him/her. The other evil quest is the one given by the troll witch doctor, where you get to kill stags and fey dragon to make a hex that kills the night elf prisoners he had. To me that seems really evil. Also i have heard about the Forsaken quests in tarren mill, those seemed rather evil too. There are other quests that do seem evil to me, but they can be discussed such as the one given by the tauren in the barrens, the one where you get to kill dwarfs excavators.I haven't done all alliance quest either, but i certainly don't remember evil quests in alliance (didn't do all Azeroth quests though so would welcome any advice to check quests).sorry about my rubbish english skills, hope its understandable >.<Azra
I Personally find it is a mind set thing. I do not play on RP server. Yet I find as I develop and lvl my toon I build a character Background in my head as I play.For example. My main is a animal loving gnome mageHe has never done a Nesway quest, Nor has killed a p.v.e animal, unless he has had very little other choice. He basically has to be pushed into a conner before attacking let alone killing a animal.In the same way he/ I look and read quests, and do or do not do on a moral based value. Yet I have other toons that are of a different Character and moral fiber therefore do different quests, and agin do not do quests based on their Background character/ personality, that I have built up in my head. I have never had a problem leveling. Amongst my friends and guild I am known as a speed leveler. So it is possible to play level quickly make gold and still do selected quests you find reflect your characters personality and moral character.The argument over Good Alliance vs Bad Horde.Nether is good or bad each has a balance of both, each does what it must to "win" the war and gain as many resources etc. Both have the end justifies the means. I play Alliance and have found many cool and honorable Horde and found a number of times each willing ot help the other though they could not talk, Yet helped the other accomplish the quest goal. again like I said its the mind set you have when you play that makes the game in part what it is to you the individual.
The Horde is not evil. I said this in the For the Horde post, and I'm saying it here, too. I'm so tired of everyone acting like the Alliance = Good and Horde = Bad. It's not black and white, people. Go look up some of the things the precious alliance has done in the past before you hammer out such clear roles for everyone. Lern 2 Lore. Nobody said anything about the Horde being evil. I saidNone of the NPCs care if you're good or evil, just if you're Ally or Horde. ...which when read, does not come close to implying that. This is not a thread for debate on applying good and evil to alliance and horde - this is about how WoW seems to lack the ability to choose to be good or evil in terms of game progression. Personally, I think being 'evil' comes in the form of deliberate griefing, stalking with intent to gank, etc in other words, players being real jerks to other players. Nothing says 'evil' to me more than someone who rolls up and takes your quest item off the ground while you're fighting the monster that was guarding it, or killing the npc's that give quests so players can't accept them or turn them in... and nothing says 'good' to me like people running by and buffing you, or taunting that Elite off your back so you have time to run away when you've bitten off more than you can chew - Horde does this for Ally and vice versa all the time on both sides of the coin. After writing that, perhaps I have felt a bit of the 'alignment' side of the game. I've felt like a good guy, doing that life-saving taunt, I've felt like a hateful jerk when I've killed someone and taken the mining node they were at... I guess Blizzard did leave it up to us, after all... just didn't give us any actual game mechanics to back it up. There are some games out there where other players can simply click you to up or down rate you (i.e. like a Fame rating) that can be positive or negative, but I wouldn't want to see that in WoW.
The Horde is not evil, perse, more amoral. They believe ENTIRELY in survival of the fittest, and see nothing wrong with what they do, as they've been fighting against everything to survive for the last few years ( the orcs, at least ).If a cannibal eats a person, and you think that that's completely wrong, does that make him evil?
i would like to point out that i dont think the horde is evil. but maybe certain individuals...
The Horde is not evil, perse, more amoral. They believe ENTIRELY in survival of the fittest, and see nothing wrong with what they do, as they've been fighting against everything to survive for the last few years ( the orcs, at least ).If a cannibal eats a person, and you think that that's completely wrong, does that make him evil?and i would like to point out that i dont think the horde is evil. but maybe certain individuals... Read the original post. Read the rest of the posts. Then, try to post on-topic, please.
great topic...my 2 cents? first to address the digression: BOTH factions have Good and Evil, I love that blizzard has not defined the factions as such, WE as players/story followers/normal humans impart what we feel into our intepretations of such. I've done Ally quests that involve torture or the seemingly ran dom slaughter of innocents. (If I were a young Murloc simply trying to fish off the coast of Westfall I's sure as hell think the alliance were a bunch of Evil warmongerers!)But to the OP: My main toon is a human Warlock, in my opinion warlocks are pretty Evil, regardless of faction, to wit: a hunter gets to find, befreind and train his pet, a warlock summons and subjugates his. my main alt is a female dranei shaman, and i play her as "good" she is a strict vegetarian (will only eat fruits and veggies which i admit can suck as far as buff food goes, but meh) so in short. Yes, it is up to each individual to define what is "Good" & "Evil" just like in the real world... and I say that Blizz has better served us by doing so. :)
hmm I'd argue Evil is perspective base, Usually tied to the beliefs of a society and its accepted norms and guidelines as to whats considered good. Good example would be the domestication of animals with the purpose of eating them later wich isnt considered evil. However there's no shortage of flicks where alians do similiar with humans.so on that id argue yes wow has those things, where good is what you do to further yourself in your factions with the ultimate goal,being exhaulted with all related factions creating your personal glory. as reaching said status makes you the thing of legends to your personal faction and allies having done the greatest good on their behalf.I could explore it on a deeper religious level but didnt want to turn it into that type of discussion, since it wouldnt be in context with the game format.in either case good or evil in wow is based on your alliances, so if there was a truly evil act in the game,it's telling the other side or tipping the other side off that your factions about to do a raid.
Well, I play on an RP server myself. And, to be honest, I usually consider my questing and instancing out-of-character, except where it fits with my character's personality. I think that allowing access without any alignment mechanic to all quests and instances lets one simply choose which ones he wants to count in his RP, or simply his backstory if he has one, and which ones are safe to ignore. As long as people don't insist that you DID do it for some reason, you can safely just assume it never happened.
I have read many books where like one powerful warrior overcomes 100 others.Which is typical in a book to make it exciting but in my opinion its more of a symbol to show his strength in general.Just like 'Just how epic are your lewtz' and the HP factor lots of good reasons to name a few like its actually there chance to dodge the killing blow and when it hits zero they cant dodge the blow or shield Etc..But his HP and damage just show how powerful he is And secondly in Wow nobody is really good or evil like in real life have you ever played a prank? (and that was a rhetorical question)as in a mean one not a joke like embarrassing someone Its funny to you but is it right and its not funny to the person who got pranked (unless hes a really jolly person who hardly ever seems unhappy who are about one in a Million)like in real lifeI mean I am not exactly and angel but I am also not a evil person I am new to playing WoW and I am enjoying it my favorite character is Alliance but I also play a horde character and enjoy it just as much Lets say your Alliance you hate the Horde Bla bla bla etc put yourself in the hordes shoes are they as evil as you thought are you as good and just as you thought well anyway this was my first blog comment I hope I explained and wrote well and as always you can criticize me as much as you want I respect all other opinions
I have to admit, some of the quests you get (on the Alliance side) disturb me a bit; they don't seem very...heroic. I don't mind the 'help me out by getting 'xyz''; you're just doing a favor for a fellow citizen. But 'kill x number of this neutral faction so we can get an alliance with one group' strike me as, well, evil. Maybe these tasks need to be done; but I'm not sure I should be doing them.Haven't done much on the Horde side, but many of their quests seem the same. (And yes, although I'm primarily Alliance, I can accept the idea of Horde heroes.)I guess that the quests for PCs should have a certain grandeur about them, a certain heroic quality. Northrend has more of these types of quests, which is why I like the expansion.