I am disappointed......that I can't report this for a sticky :)
most of the time pugging on my realm is great....kinda like being in a room with four strangers wondering if they know what they are doinghad a bad one day afore yesterday on my priest....sometimes i don't mind being in charge but am used to the tank being the one to mark ect...ran ST with a pug...i guess i'm so used to everyone who does the pre bc instances knowing the whole place....the four people i was with only one had ran it....and the tank kept saying "watch this" and pulling tons of mobs in the dragon room....then losing aggro..LOLheal marks heal splains everyone stays group clears instance (almost we didn't do the basement with the wormies and such) everyone gives heals claps on the back....heals takes a deep breath and goes to bed but ya know...it didn't sour me...i'm still in trade LFG ______ when the guild is empty i still like instance lvlin my priest and random instance with my mainit's kinda fun and amazing when things go well....even good if they go badi think i'm in your boat....i like pug
Hiya Im new on here
I don't like PuGing that much, mainly because of people leaving after a single wipe. I don't mind repair costs, and neither should anyone who decide to join a PuG. It's also partially the problem of finding a tank before we even get started. Most tanks have socalled 'static groups' or people they already know that they whisper for instances, because tanks most of all hate wiping out. I imagine it must be easy to find a decent geared PuG when you are a tank yourself. When you've played this game for years, you'd rather go with a name you know well, rather than an unknown quest geared player.When I do get together with a PuG, I'll take leadership if needed. If the current group leader does a good job at telling how we'll do things, and marks main kill, secondary kill, etc. I just follow along. Every group needs someone to take leadership to get through challenging instances, that's for sure.THE one thing in specific I hate are people who quit. "Let's just do it the normal way" instead of even trying the hard mode achievements, or simply leaving group after a wipe are things that make me hate PuGing more than anything. There's nothing worse for me than getting saved to an instance where the last boss(es) is(/are) still alive. Sure, if someone have a really good reason why they suddenly have to leave after 30 minutes in a PuG, I can probably manage to replace them, but I don't like players who simply quit with no good reason, and wiping a couple of times is not a good one.I resort to PuGs when needed, but I'll always go with a premade over that.
While I tend to avoid PUGs these days, I have to agree with what was said before: We all started as noobs. I still remember when I was asked to tank RFK as a little Tauren. I was running around with my big 2h mace feeling happy for myself, thinking shields were for pallies and those tiny humans. It was by grace of the party that they allowed me to tank even if I didnt have Defensive Stance trained (skipped the quest). The other group members (undoubtedly alts of then level 60 players) were very patient and explained to me how the use of a shield had its benefits in an instance situation. Not long thereafter I had respecced to full protection tank and had found my calling.Of course when encountering level 80 players that play at the level described above my patience levels drop drastically.When I run a heroic with my guild members, I know I don't have to mark the caster mob in the back cause the mage will sheep it automatically. I don't worry about my health nine times out of ten the healer will be on the ball and I'm healed to full before even contemplating using panic buttons.I tend to get frustrated and have absolutely zero respect for stupidity and ignorance, so PUGs are generally not for me.Here's one for the tanks: How much do you hate random whispers from people you have never heard of that consist of nothing more than '?' / HC DLY?' or 'Prot?' / 'Tank?' / 'Feral?'
Here's one for the tanks: How much do you hate random whispers from people you have never heard of that consist of nothing more than '?' / HC DLY?' or 'Prot?' / 'Tank?' / 'Feral?'Yeah. "Spec?" is even worse, as you don't know what answer they're expecting, and it's usually the one you're not (druid/paladin).PUGs are like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates - you never know what you're going to get. I quite like them as a means of meeting people, but they can fail pretty badly.
Just though I'd say wow that was an awesome post! Before I met some really great people I have just about NO instance experience at all.. I'd some to a quest that ended up in an instance an would be too nervous to even ask to join a group :( Since then I've come out of my shell a great deal, and due to those patient teachers I've gotten to know the different roles in a good group. My many thanks to those who have taken me and others in my place under their wing! It seems that with every run, with my group or with a PUG, I learn something new, which is awesome! I have yet to do any heroics, and I look forward to trying them out! Again, thanks for the post (brings back some memories) and thanks to those patient teachers! It's people like you who make the game better for all! ^_^
Excellent post! You really managed to highlight the defining points of a successful PuG and a failed attempt. To add in with what you, and everyone else here has been saying, I've also had some very unique PuG experience, and for the most part I enjoy the challenges PuGs propose. The one thing that I would really like to speak to is your point on communicating. I've never before realized how crucial it was to get casual conversation going until the fateful night that I PuG'ed the Shattered Halls.This was the very first time that I was running the instance, and I was filling a dps role (normally I tank with my druid, but in a place that I'm unaccustomed I sit on the dps back burner). From beginning to end, through 2 wipes, and up until Kargath himself no one in the group spoke a single word. I didn't quite realize that no one was talking at first, but by the time we first wiped and I shot the encouraging "let's get back to it, dash up that hallway and then focus fire on the elites at the end", and received nothing back, it kind of struck home that no one had said a word (and continued on in silence). It's not so much the lack of communication to organize attacks, but more so the lack of any social atmosphere at all that made the entire run one of the strangest that I've ever been in. Words cannot discribe how awkward that run was. By the end I assumed that I was playing with people who didn't have their translator's turned on and couldn't understand the few words I had typed in order to get conversation going, or I had stumbled into a half formed guild run and they were all chatting away in guild chat choosing to simply ignore me. Fast foward to last night when I was in Utgarde Pinnacle with a PuG and we were laughing, chatting about random stuff, slaying undead, and poking fun at game quirks.....and deeply discussing who the best Marvel comic villain of all time was (my vote was for Norman Osborne due to all the traumatic garbage that he's put Peter Parker through over time). The run didn't necessarily go faster, but it was about a million times more comfortable, and even though we did wipe once, there was this automatic sense that everything was alright and we were just going to give it another shot. As the tank in most groups I'll often assume that role of unspoken leadership, and in that role I think it's crucial to encourage these complete strangers to chat. I'm not saying that you need to "asl" everyone in the group and be all creepy about it, but definitely lighten the mood, shoot a handful of jokes, and have some fun!I'll always try and make everyone in the group feel valuable, and rather than poke at the mistakes and try to tell people how to play, I'm more apt to pat the heale ron the back for healing through a nasty fight, or the dps for burning down a particularly annoying mob really quick. There's always opportunitys to offer some helpful advice, but I try and wait until they really look like they're struggling to offer the friendly "Hey, would you like a couple tips that may help you out."One final thought on PuGs, and something that other tanks out there may or may not already use, but I find that "/readycheck" is Godly to use in PuGs, just because you can never tell when someone's slipped off for a quick cup of tea, sandwich, or a bathroom break before you go dashing into the next room. In almost every PuG that I implement the readychecks I'll have someone whisper me at the end of the run and say "thank you for using readycheck! No one ever uses it and we managed to get through without a single wipe!"........of course, that only applies to those smooth runs ;)
I'd have to say that my best experience with a PuG actually happened last night. Someone went through the effort to put together a 25man Obsidian Sanctum raid. Four people died. Four. At different times too! Two died because they stood in the lava in between boss fights (>.<) and the other two died because they misheard the raid leaders directions during the lava waves.Nobody tried to ninja anything, a bunch of us got Emblems that we were expecting to get for ages, and we have a Naxx raid planned for Friday. The sheer teamwork from a bunch of people across guilds was amazing - inspiring, even.But even before that I liked PuGs. Sure you get your fair share of bad ones, but you get to meet a lot of great people too. When I was questing in Howling Fjord I was randomly invited to a group. This was the first night the game was out. Eventually everybody left but me and a hunter. Over the next few weeks we did a ton of questing and instancing together and he keeps me in mind if he ever needs a healer and I will send him a tell if I need a dps.I think PuGs are a great way to experience the game, personally. Our guild is small so we always end up pugging someone, so we're used to it.
Hi folks,I have experienced the whole spectrum of PUGs (except raid pugs) and I can say that I used to love them for the exact reasons the OP mentioned.Nowadays, I find myself running low on patience so I'll try to avoid PUGs for a time.From my point of view, you need to bring to a PUG what you'd like to get from it: an open mind, a good dose of patience, politeness and friendliness. Never heard of successful PUGs full of anti-social, rude people.Good grammar I put under "politeness" but that's just me.Pet peeves:-Young players: I positively blow a fuse when I realize I have explained thrice a thing to a kid that thought I was chatting to someone else. You get a feeling these players are on your case when they whisper you 10 differents questions to ask about stuff available on Wowhead (like "where can I buy arrows in Orgrimmar?). Even if you already told them twice to look it up there.-Hot shots:Ever grouped with a player that was so leet that the only things he'd put in chat would be snide comments about how the performance of the group is below what he expects?Got a shammy once that would congratulate a group that almost wiped on a boss with a "I'm not impressed". Like the group was actually waiting on his opinion to judge their performance...That poison a run's ambiance real fast and deserve a one-way trip to the ignore list.Best PUG member ever:I'm still flaggerblasted by the attitude of a holy priest that I was apologizing to for a sub-par tanking session.He answered something along "No need to apologize, you guys had a great team spirit and I don't ask for anything else. Good attitude and maturity what I look for in people I play with because I hate being yelled at..".That guy cleaned months of bad PUG karma in a pinch. I felt privileged to have run with him and politely begged to be granted the favor of putting him on my friend list. :)Barns.
Good blog post. I love PUGs and yes I've taught tanks how to tank :) In all honesty, there was someone who taught me how to tank correctly way back then. I did an alright job but he gave me good pointers like charge in then switch to def stance, use demo shout to make healing easier, etc. When I first played a warrior, I had no idea what "generates a lot of threat" meant. We were all newbs when we started playing wow. When I first played in a 5man dungeon, I think I pulled like 8 ragefire troggs and caused a wipe :DI think being polite and taking time to explain things in detail is best. You're not the king of wow so you have no right to yell at someone, barking at them about how they're supposed to play.What I love most about PUGs: "can I need for my alt?" "can I have all the cloth drops you pick up?" "can I need to de?" "stop ninjaing soul shards or I'll kick you out of the group"
"Back in my Tribes days"Wow I miss that game. Gotta share, what team/teams did you play on? Normal or mod servers?
Honestly? I don't think I've ever been in a truly horrible or even bad PuG. And I've only been in one group where we had something ninja'd. Most of the PuG's im in are average to mediocre. I guess I'm a little less jaded then most.
I agree 110% with the original poster, as this is always something I've done on forums. But the problem doesn't lie in zero communication. The problem lies here: You talk to your team. You're optimistic and polite, and you make sure everyone is communicating. However, no matter if it's one or more persons, there is always that little runt in the group who REFUSES to work together. Absolutely will not be polite/respect others, and absolutely -will not- work together, period. Usually something is uttered like: "u think ur some kind of leader? lolol gtfo u nub. stfu." There's more than one of these players. Back in 2005, we had a VERY SMALL PLAYER BASE made up of these undesirables. Sure, you can report them, but they'll come back and do it again to someone else--they'll never learn their lesson. Why doesn't Blizzard do something against this? Four reasons for ya'll:1) There's far too many players to deal with.2) The punishments aren't harsh enough to scare these "undesirables" into being polite.3) If they banned or deleted accounts, Blizzard would get less money. Not like they already don't have enough as it is.4) Blizzard cannot possibly stand up against 4chan, which is obviously where all of these stupid players started piling in from--in early 2006. "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers" I believe the saying goes. So point being, we can help the group succeed by doing all of the things suggested, but if there are any undesirables in the party, then they must be removed, or the group will not succeed, period.
I think, we as tanks, have all written a similarly confident post assuring people that if one just choose to make things happen, they somehow magically do.I am not quite as polite in my posting of this topic, as I'm obnoxiously aggressive & won't hesitate to tell you to step up, take charge, and tank like a mad man.Excellent post.
On my server, it seems to me that PuGs are more useful than guilds some days. Ive pugged about 75% of all my instances and even raids. usually people who pug are people who know what they are doing and put themselves out there, not ride on the coat-tails of their guild. But dont get me wrong. Ive had my share of pugs who are just plain horrible, and do not know the difference between "cc" and "aoe."
My karma must be good, because I PUG 90% of the time, and my good experiences outnumber the bad. The skill and class make-up is always unpredictable, and that makes it fun.Character is really key. If you have someone willing to lead, and everyone willing to learn and accept a few wipes as the cost of improving, it ends up being a lot of fun.The only downside is that it's still hard to get into a group if you're DPS. Those spots tend to fill up first.
Here's one for the tanks: How much do you hate random whispers from people you have never heard of that consist of nothing more than '?' / HC DLY?' or 'Prot?' / 'Tank?' / 'Feral?'Yeah. "Spec?" is even worse, as you don't know what answer they're expecting, and it's usually the one you're not (druid/paladin).One of the most annoying things in wow imo. I really wish they had disabled plain /who when they implemented lfg. I don't mind people I've ran with whispering me, even though even that can get old sometimes, but the ones that whisper <instance>? and <holy/prot>? really make me mad.
I totally agree with this post.I love a good pug, and I've found that if you bring some humor and an open minded, people are for the most part nice. Sure I've had bad experiences (The DK in half crit, half def gear who first rolled on blue +crit gear, and then rolled on blue +def gear without asking if it was okay to need again) but a successful PuG is 1000 times more enjoyable and satisfying than a successful guild run.
This has long been something I do to keep things going. I'm usually the nice guy when things start falling apart unless the haet is getting drawn to me, then I'd try to be as small as possible. =P It might seem like common sense, but when emotions run high, common sense seldom is very common.Very good blogpost! Certainly puts in words the principles of good grouping.