I think the biggest issue are the "special", or unique NPCs - people like Thrall, Jaina, Uther, Varian Wrynn, Cairne Bloodhoof, even the bosses, should have something unique in their models. Like Sylvanas and Varimathras - both resemble some popular model, but have been improved clearly. That's what we need - doesn't really matter if all the grunts or footmen look the same, and slightly different than the WC3 ones, but the really unique NPCs must be unique...
The troll style in Warcraft 3 was amazing and they should have followed that more closely than they did. I do not like the rugged trolls of World of Warcraft, rather have the agile and slick headhunters from Warcraft 3!
Thank you, Malgayne. I feel the same way as well, and a good side by side comparison like this post is very much appreciated. The Warcraft 3 models, while rough in form, carried so much more character in their design.
Fully agree. Warcraft 3 had a lot more time put into it. Blizzard got a little lazy with WoW, not that it isn't good.
I've worked in the graphic design field for several years now. Sometimes, when people come to us and say "Hey, we want a logo. In that logo we want a skull with fire coming out of its eyes, and a sapphire in its mouth, and a jagged crack along the cheek, and we want it to look yellowish." When we have this many specific directions, it's hard to duplicate what they want, and often we aren't satisfied with the results.When they come in and say "I don't know. Something with a skull and flames, but you do what you feel works best," we're able to give far more "wowing" results.
To be honest, I think you're viewing things through rose-colored glasses. A lot of those look pretty damn close to the exact same thing as the original (like the Necropolis in particular). Warcraft 3 is just downright ugly lookin', and I'm not seeing the issue with any WoW models. You're imagining things, or perhaps biased. xD
My journey into the world of Azeroth began in much the same way. Though I stink terribly at W3, I did have a blast playing it. I would stockpile ghouls, sometimes 100 of them, and launch them against my opponent with a Lich in tow (for the ghoul-enhancing Frost Nova). That was my strategy every time. Some players figured it out and repeatedly spanked me; a very few never could.Questing in the Eastern Plaguelands instantly brought me back to W3. I loved the nostalgic feeling. Oh, and nothing beats the Undercitteh in coolness.
I think I can agree on some of these...but...The new paladin looks very good, although the old one looks good too and they should make both of them in WoWThe early ghoul is my favorite version, not the WC3 one or the new DK oneI like the new frost wyrms, but, they should have more of the blue magic wisps in the center.Skeletal mages and TC should also be left where they are.Theres my opinion
I'd honestly have to say that you're letting nostalgia overrule objectivism. This is not to say you're not entirely wrong - there are definitely places where corners were cut in WoW graphics development. For instance, think Thrall, Sylvanas, or other "notables" who were reduced to regular models instead of given their own special ones from the start. And believe me, I would love to have seen them do something more impressive with the early Necropoli.(Though, as an aside, it could be said that this choice effectively "humanizes" the heroes of the Horde and Alliance - they're not out of our reach, as it were; we can grow up to be like them some day. Whether that's just me overthinking things or deliberate choice on the part of the art team I'll leave up to you :P )However, many of the elements that you point out in War3 were put in for the explicit purpose of both "distinguishing" different units (as you pointed out) and for making them more appealing. We tend to respond better to things with certain oversized body parts (get your heads out of the damn gutter!) such as heads or hands, even. Notice how many of the undead or generally non-human units have large, protruding heads or eyes?This is a fairly simple and effective way of designing characters that are going to be very, very small on your screen so that a) we notice them and b) we actually kinda like'em. Think of the early Japanese RPGs, the chibi style anime. If you can make your audience see your characters faces, you've won half the battle right there.This does not translate well into larger character sizes, however. Anyone ever play DK mode in Goldeneye? It's an extreme example, but the principle is the same. It's humorous, sure, but it grows to be offputting if you're continuously exposed to it. Better to make your characters more realistic. You lose some of that uniqueness, certainly, but your whole presentation feels more coherent.Or so I feel, anyways. XD
I do agree with Queazan.When things get bigger they tend to look less "nice" especially when wow is heading for a realistic environment.There are multiple factors to take into consideration like the ambience and the settings of the video.While in war3, the things remain small but they don't look exactly that "real". Its like a normal RPG playing from head down. If you attempt to zoom in you will notice most stuff arent smooth. Its impressive at that level itself. But considering at wow, you are playing from a footman pov and if thats the graphic you will be looking at for all the way, people will grow tired easily.Edit: Code is Bitme
I've been thinking the exact same thing, and you're spot on with those images. Theres some magic over War3/TFT thats just not there in WoW.
I miss some of the old wc3 models. The abomination in particular was much better in wc3.
WoW itself is missing the cel-shaded "black outlines" Wc3 seem to have wrapped around their models. Picture it like a cartoon, you take out those lines and you get a very expose bunch of colours mixing witht the surroundings, giving the whole picture less depth, but rather more realistic. But in order for the WoW models to make up for the lack of lines, I believe giving the WoW models more accessories/body components will give it a much more better result. Like the skeletal mage, looking alot better than that frost wyrm. World of Warcraft just lack that comical stroke lines that i see in Wc3. Maybe better texture and modelling is in need.
I miss the WC3 models too. The ghoul back then, I actually felt okay using them.7 years later, and my Death Knight is trying oh-so-hard to avoid speccing Unholy. The ghoul is just horrible. It looked like it actually wanted to feed off of the flesh of the living.Now it just looks like it needs a good dentist.~Hybrid.
Necro'd and a double post! We have a winner!Aside from that though, I actually missed this post somehow when it was originally posted. Good read.
Excellent examples and thinking about things like the dragons in wc3-->now look in the similar way yet those proto-drakes look like TRUE beasts. Then there's sylvanes as a excellent example because of the change. Here is her original wow model; http://www.wowwiki.com/File:SylvanasWindrunner.jpg in comparison to the wc3 one: http://www.wowwiki.com/File:SylvanasWar3UD.JPGYou can tell that they closely based the WoW one off of the wc3 one, yet recently they updated it and voila; http://www.wowwiki.com/File:Sylvanasnew.jpgA bit farther from the original and it definetely is more creative. I was doing quests in Nagrand and noticed how epic Garrosh looked standing next to Thrall at the end of that massive quest chain of quest chains. I think your right in when they were making WoW some of the art teams said, 'we need to recreate this warcraft 3 unit that is an abomination, instead of 'we need to create an abomination'. It looks like(from the two expansions) that they have drifted away or even realized this and so have begun giving the artists more freedom(look at the Lost Ones draenei; they don't look quite perfectly as the ones in wc3 but that is fine because the creativity in making them quite interestng; but still the broken look a notch up in creativity because of broken not having a place in wc3.)The more i think about it the more you are 100% right. While it is true WoW has done a fantastic job, i think this is one of the first 'mistake' that i have seen that actually has legitimacy in blizzard trying to overly-copy something. While its not game breaking i think they've realized this, especially looking at Diablo 3 imps; they don't look exactly like the Diablo 2 ones but if they tried to do the same thing as with wc3->WoW i think they know they might not make it as cool looking.Very good 'discovery' of sorts on your part and it is kind of nice to see something like this-it really shows how blizzard is progressively fixing little things to make their upcoming games that much better and not just sticking with something because its easier.
Hey, I liked this old thread. Necros are okay if you have something to say. :)
You should like this old thread.. It's a good one! I think the point about the abominations is the best.. I too remember being slightly disappointed with them my first time in Tirisfal. (Undead was my first character, too.) And Cairne definitely needs an upgrade.