I like the whole idea of removing the depletion of keystones thing, but I'm not certain yet how the end rewards of chests are gonna work out, I kinda like that as it is currently and makes you really put some effort into getting a perfect strategy for getting those extra chests, especially on higher levels
I find the changes to the Keystone System quite interesting, but I see a problem with the changes to the multiple reward structure.I believe that getting rid of the potential to get much AP reward for comparatively little work will result in a sharp plummeting in party creation for lower Keystones thus making it harder for low-geared Characters to rise in item-lvl.
Killing carry groups that dont ask for gold? YES! killing the no lifers that spend 12+ hours to push a 22 into a 23? YES. So people will actually have a mythic+ wowprogress score relative to their skill and not how many hours they spend in 1 dung? YES. Only downside is the less gear on 2-3 chest runs but meh. Not a big deal if theres more incentive to run high keys. 99% approval from me!
By two to three items at the end, does it mean per person or total?
So great lets make getting good gear upgrades and warforges from m+ even harder then it already is by cutting the loot drop in half very bad idea.
You really think running 1 dungeon over and over will help your M+ wow progress score? You know a +10 gives you 100 points.. and that's it.. you don't get 100 every time you run it. you get 100 points for each dungeon, you have a 1200 score for completing all 12 at level 10. every level above 10 gives you an additional 10 points. ONCE. M+ scores are very very relevant. If I'm looking to fill a spot in a group, I use wowprogress to determine what the player has completed (or not completed) at that level. I wouldn't bring someone with a +15 achieve if they hadn't done a +15 for the dungeon I was looking for. You talk !@#$ on the guys who do what it takes to get a 22 done, yet you have 0 experience with a key that high. Do you even M+ bro?
With these changes a group can keep using their own keystones indefinitely. Deliberately de-leveling it and endlessly running dungeons at whatever level they desire. In the current system a M+ group will push their keystones up to a level that they can't handle, and then spend the week pulling in strangers for their keystones.The AP reward for doing keystones above the level that gives the best gear is very small compared to the extra effort and time needed. So players looking to be efficient will just keep their keystone at 10 (or presumably 15 when ToS is released) by resetting the instance a couple of times to level it back down.Together with the removal of reward for very high speed runs, the PUG dynamic will significantly change. A lot of people (basically any DPS with ilvl below 900) are going to find it very hard to find a group when their keystone is no longer a valuable commodity. I understand that the idea is for lower level characters to group up together and do the lower level keystones, but with the oversupply of DPS characters there'll always be a 900+ character willing to do a M+6 dungeon for AP and the chance of a massive titanforge.P.S. I'm a resto druid main with bear as offspec. So any QQ is on behalf of other people, not for myself.
Nerfing the ability to troll and deplete someone's key? Sure. Nerfing the incentive to create world of boostcraft and armies of boosted animals just because they happened to roll a maw key or whatever is the hot cake after maw nerf? Sure. Nerfing the gogogo speedrunning "only 3 chest" runs for ADHD ridden playerbase? Yes please. But 1 thing is missing from the whole picture, and that is incentive to actually do a challenging key. Once someone can "speedrun" a 15 in TOS gear they have still zero incentive to "challenge themselves" pushing to 20 or higher, because the rewards don't scale, and once you unlock concordance, the AP gains are gonna be small drops in the sea.
Actually I had my highest as a 22 last patch and done a 22 this patch already and i dont even spend half a day trying to push a 22 into a 23. FIrst off, understand what i said... When i said people were running a dung over and over I meant that they were running a very high lvl dung repeaatedly to try to beat timer to get a higher key. So instead of people trying to get that perfect run to beat a timer that they normally wouldnt be able to... they now can only beat a dung lvl that they actually deserve to beat. Its no longer going to be based on how many hours you spend getting perfect runs for mythic+ score. Its going to be based on how good you are at consistently beating high lvl stones. i.e. People actuallly good at mythic+ will have that shown... people that suck but are good enough to get a perfect run out of 20 tries will show that theyre good but they'll have to spend even more time doing it. Overall a healthy change in that regard.
This needs clarification from blues. If it's 2-3 100% guaranteed per person, this is a good change. If it's 2-3 100% guaranteed to split between 5 people, you'll never see anyone run but 1 highest they can each week.
At least they're trying to fix the "have gear WAAAAAAY past what you'll get in here just to join" problem.
No one wants to do "higher keystone levels", level 10 is the highest level for gear currently. Anything above level 10 still rewards level 10 gear.
Let's take average player. To "likely to see upgrade" ilvl drop should be at least 905. Now. Not in 7.2.5. To keep it that way, and not flood everything with loot, it should be drop from dungeons like level +15 - +16, not less. Again, now, not in 7.2.5. That mean "likely to see upgrade" is not even close possible in 7.2.5 if loot cap will be at level 15, so all this changes is nonsense with declared goal.
"If you don’t complete the dungeon at all, you’ll have a Keystone for the same dungeon that’s one level lower than the one you just used."I just have one question regarding this. What is stopping me to zone into the dungeon all alone and use my keystone (eg. level 21) multiple times to bring it down to whatever is good enough for me or just to keep it hitting 3 Affixes and then do a proper run?Rinse and repeat ....Edit:Eg. I can keep a keystone at level 9 forever for easier clear this way and keep doing quick clear runs for AP and chance at titanforge loot. 7 mins MoS runs yay!
Doing keys higher than 10 are not only fun and challenging but also give more AP. The in-dungeon chests and weekly chests give more AP the higher lvl dung you do. There's 2 reasons to do them right there.
RIP Mythic+. Is was nice place for AP at the beginning of the addon and for titanforged loot after 7.1.5.
Interesting changes, I bet many M+ farmers will cry, but overall it's a good change for normal players
add timewalking+ I have recently finished the wotlk dungeon on average of 8 minutes pulling everything under the boss.It was fun and it was fast. Tho these changes look cool and I like them running a dungeon fast still should give something. At least an announce that this is a new world record on this difficulty. ( I know that you track it (https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/pve/leaderboards/aegwynn/black-rook-hold)
Am I the only one concerned about the fact we'll now get only 1 legendary chance instead of 1-3? And ultimately cumulatively this means people running M+ will have a far worse chance of getting legendaries then they have now?That aside, I run my m+ with almost the same group of people, friends and guildies cause I wanna do it as quickly as possible to get more loot and legendary chances, we rarely invite a 5th person to our group, but even then it's based on their class if anything and the basic understanding that if you can't get 900 ilvl, it's kinda your fault. I don't want you to ever make me run lower ilvl geared players in content they are supposed to gradually move onto, find people to do it with regularly like I have and get used to wiping in m+. You're basically creating a shortcut for people where as all of us had to go over months of wiping, trying and getting used to M+. I'll still do it with the same group of people, but you're making me have to run 3X as much M+ to make it even for me to get a legendary from it.Also, you created the AP system where we have to farm AP which most people do via M+ and then you tell us you want us to go and choose dungeons cause of gear instead of stomping through them? We're doing it for the AP since most of the people running M+ regularly aren't looking for upgrades in instances. I won't run CoS or Arc for an upgrade over another dungeon cause your WF and TF system made it impossible for me to know if an upgrade will drop or not. A base level of 890 when I'm 910 isn't an incentive to go for upgrades, but it if happens - yay me. I don't think you'll see the change you are hoping to get with this so buckle up and get ready for abuse of key depletion, no change in who gets invited to groups and a pissed off community.
they lost me here with the mixed information, said loot drops will be the same ,, 2 items for completing or 3 for on time, but mythic+ gives you 2 items per chest. Thats 6. unless they are saying each person gets 2-3 items each or the whole group gets 2-3 items, both scenarios make their statement that loot will be the same very wrong...