Highlighted the important part. The people in that room are not the ones that bombed her city. In that room there's an orc that for a long time was her friend and ally, a blood elf that she KNOWS was against garrosh from the very beginning and was trying to rejoin the alliance before SHE backstabbed HIM, a Tauren that saved the lives of everyone in her city by warning them weeks before the attack began, a troll that has always been honorable and worked side-by-side with the alliance against the zandalari, even after another alliance dictator fire-bombed his home. There's also Gallywix with whom she's had no dealings and who hasn't really done anything to the alliance, and Sylvannas, the ONLY person in that room she has legitimate reasons to mistrust.However, the destruction of the city was a group effort by the Horde, therefore making those leaders accessories (or perhaps conspirators. I'm not the best at legal jargon) to the destruction of Theramore.WRONG!!!!!!Everyone in the horde was in the dark about the bomb, absolutely nobody knew of its existence, and the attack on the city was only done reluctantly, and with a stern warning that another theramoore would mean everyone leaving the horde. So group effort my foot. That was garrosh bullying everyone into attackign the city, and then bombing it without telling anyone, sacrificing a good chunk of his own people just to ensure the alliance lost more.And jaina knows this, because baine warned her. And said rebels helped her depose garrosh.It seems jaina has forsaken all of her intelligence and brains for blind hate, and for that, she sucks.Give her time. The destruction was recently. People act stupid when bad things happen, then they eventually come to terms. We've all done it at some point or other. Some people just take longer to get over things, and that's a BIG thing to get over. It wasn't recent, its been in-lore almost a year since it happened.In the alliance cutscene she was practically Grima Wormtongue from LOTR. "They plot against you".Because they totally didn't just have a huge war or anything that would make them legitimate enemies who probably WILL resume plotting against them in the future (and vice versa by the Alliance)read my above comment:The people in that room are not the ones that bombed her city. In that room there's
I suppose it would be sacrilege to suggest that Jaina's part in the cutscene was just plain bad writing on Blizzard's part? I'm not so much interested in whether Jaina is sympathetic or not as whether she's plausible and consistent or not. She's not been written well here, for the reasons many of you have already pointed out.It's also important to note that in the wake of Theramore she *did* take the high road and denounced a blind anti-Horde position. She only started hating the Horde en masse and evicting them from Dalaran when Horde ambushers broke into Darnassus and stole the doodad unearthed in Kun Lai. I loved the writing on Jaina until this moment: making this Jaina's breaking point, when she whethered Theramore so admirably, was unconvincing. Having her continue to be on a blind rage here is more of the same.The downturn in the writing on Jaina is all the more noticeable because it was so good for so long. Anyway, again, I don't personally care if she's a "good" character or a "bad" character; the writing just needs to be convincing one way or the other.
I don't understand how some people think Jaina is justified. With all due respect, are you all just bunch of racists? Garrosh commanded the bombing, the guy they just defeated with the help of the rest of Horde. There it ends. the regime has fallen, the fight is over. Do you suppose war only ends after one side is genocided? Are we supposed to invade Germany and not stop warring until the bitter end because of what Hitler did? That just doesn't sound right, does it? How is it different in this fictional universe? Jaina used to be cool, but it seems the explosion has damaged her brain and now she is stupid stubborn self-righteous warmonger much like Garrosh.
Keelerak, I WAS going to reply intelligently to you- until you made a comparison to Nazi Germany in your first post. Therefore, you are not worth replying to.Rank, I'll reply to you later, I'm on my phone right now. I might make a thread in L+RP though, to keep it out of this thread.
Keelerak, I WAS going to reply intelligently to you- until you made a comparison to Nazi Germany in your first post. Therefore, you are not worth replying to.Why? If you think the comparison is not accurate, please, explain.It is not possible to defend Jaina without boiling down "Horde" to one group, which is a racist bs and if Jaina thinks that way, she has lived longer than she needed to.
Since most people have already said the spoiler anyway and seen the video i wana ask a couple of questions which could lead to next expansion in a big way and get some of my thoughts off my chest and get other peoples opinions so before anyone attacks me...****Spoiler Alert Below*******1.With Garrosh still alive and heading to pandaria for trial for his crimes is it possible this could be part of the 5.5 or pre-release patch before next expansion (Ghostcrawler stated when questioned for developer questions there could be another patch before this expansion ends a very small one)?2.With tons of rumors going round for the next expansion being burning crusades return, if Garrosh isn't killed by then and he escapes and joins up with the burning legion and be a possible raid boss in the future, could that be a possible link to the next expansion (because Varian stopped Thrall from killing him then Taran Zhu steps in to say he will face justice on neutral ground and not in a human city nor a horde city) even then, if Garrosh is found guilty for all his crimes and deserves the most extreme punishment, I thought pandarens don't kill, if they choose to lock him up both horde and alliance leaders will be angered he wasn't killed for all his actions, if locked up tho he has a chance to escape?3. Jaina was always the person in between the horde and the alliance making sure war the last possible thing but with Theramore being blown up you gotta understand her anger and frustration the orc who did it wasn't killed instead he will stand trial then his punishment(what ever it may be) will be carried out but Jaina's mind is clouded she thinks all the horde were in on the whole bomb her city thing, and now she wants to kill the rest of the horde while they are broken apart and telling Varian 'they plot against you' thinks that will start another spark, i admire Varian for once being the guy to take a breath think about it and not just hit first worry about the consequences later but the last line of the cinematic 'I WILL END YOU' that had some emotion in it Varian means it he might not have attacked like jaina wanted but now the horde know he will go for them if they step out of line again.4.Jaina looks to be agitated by the horde now i would not be surprised if she becomes a raid boss and splits from the alliance but if she calms down and deals with what happened and see's Garrosh being punished i feel she will become less hostile to horde.Last thing i would say is i want blizzard to show us in a cinematic to do with a quest in a small patch before next expansion the trial against Garrosh and what happens to him. If he is not killed there will be repurcussions against that.(Sorry for any spelling mistakes and hope to see some responses to my questions and thoughts. FOR THE ALLIANCE)
Why?are you all just bunch of racists?Are we supposed to invade Germany and not stop warring until the bitter end because of what Hitler did? which is a racist bsThis is why. I don't argue when Godwin's Law has been fulfilled. If you can't figure it out, I'm not going to bother explaining it. Sorry.
Burning Berserkers and Eternal Kilnmasters no longer use Fiery Charge on targets who are not in combat.Dread Ship Vazuvius now deals less damage with its Cannon Barrage, the range of its knockback ability has been reduced, and can apply its Eerie Fog effect more readily.Thank the GODS.What a &*!@ quality copy of the cinematic. Somebody wake me up when there's a version without people talking over it and muting the audio.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A00jJxhyRYPERCULIA, I HATE YOU WITH ALL MY MIGHT. I WAS AVOIDING ALL THE POSTS PROVIDING INFO ON THE NEW WARCHIEF AND YOU DROP IT RIGHT THERE WITH NOT EVEN A SPOILER ALERT. I. HATE. YOU.Caps for added dramaYou mean the "Click the cut for the hotfixes and spoilers on the new Warchief!" and then having to watch the entire video wasn't enough?This means much less if you directly access the thread from the forums. You only see a cut on Wowheadnews. HOWEVER, the complaint isn't exactly credible. The title makes it obvious enough there are spoilers.
Why?are you all just bunch of racists?Are we supposed to invade Germany and not stop warring until the bitter end because of what Hitler did? which is a racist bsThis is why. I don't argue when Godwin's Law has been fulfilled. If you can't figure it out, I'm not going to bother explaining it. Sorry.I never compared you or Jaina to the nazis, I compared Garrosh to them and even at that I never said "Garrosh is like the nazis" or any variation, I just said that attacking the Horde as it is because of Garrosh is like attacking Germany as it is for the nazis, and frankly you could replace them with any other dictator without even the slightest change in the meaning. Also, i recommend using wikipedia as your source instead of tvtropes, as much as awesome they are, you can't say they are really a serious source. Wikipedia says:Godwin's law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Nazis – often referred to as "playing the Hitler card". The law and its corollaries would not apply to discussions covering known mainstays of Nazi Germany such as genocide, eugenics, or racial superiority, nor, more debatably, to a discussion of other totalitarian regimes or ideologies, if that was the explicit topic of conversation, since a Nazi comparison in those circumstances may be appropriate, in effect committing the fallacist's fallacy. Whether it applies to humorous use or references to oneself is open to interpretation, since this would not be a fallacious attack against a debate opponent.According to this, no Godwin's law has been used.As to my quotes about racism: blaming entire group of people, including one's friends who actually tried to warn her and later rebelled against the leadership responsible for it, is as racistic as one can get. Jaina is a racist and everyone else who agrees with this standpoint is either one as well, or is unable to realize how flawed the logic is
I don't think he is necessarily weakened. He just doesn't want to lead anymore and feels Vol'jin is a better fit for the job right now. He might feel he is of better use doing other things. Similar to how Gandalf in Lotr never was a leader but his advice was still sought out.In LOTR terms, I would prefer Thrall as Aragorn rather than Gandalf.The ultimate sacrifice is willingness to lead and give oneself for the sake of his people, not putting it against the selfish goal of raising a family. Why not be both the Earthwarder and the World Shaman while being the leader of the Horde? Oh, I see, it would upset the Alliance players, and we don't want that. The Horde players can be stepped over like nothing, though.
Thrall is not the Earth Warder...mainly because there isn't any need for one anymore.
Thrall is not the Earth Warder...mainly because there isn't any need for one anymore.That makes my question more valid, as there are less conditions duties to fulfill.