So, you can say what you like about the Asian market. There were still significant subs lost in the West.if that's what you want to think and makes you feel better, go ahead and be my guest.
Wow is a victim of its own success in many ways. It is seen as so old now - people always want the newest or latest. Those who are complaining about the daily grind -- that's been eased and it least there's a choice of dailies now. The REAL grind was getting a Netherdrake in Outland!.. While I thought heirlooms were a wonderful idea at first, I now think they proved disastrous. Once dungeons of all levels were challenging. You needed to work as a party, use your cc etc. It was good preparation for raiding. Once there were people in there with a full set of heirlooms they just charged through and the only thing that mattered was speed. Nobody knew or cared much about tactics -- just bang bang and out. Now I see many people like that attempting LFR for the first time. They have no idea what DBM is, they know nothing of tactics and care less. I remember weeks and weeks and weeks spent learning Kara. I appreciated raids getting shorter , not everyone could devote the time it took to do old raids, but now nobody seems to think they need to learn anything. Blizzard has tried to please all of the people all of the time and it cannot be done! Where they also seriously err is in not paying enough attention to all the bugs and problems people have. I have never found a GM less than polite and helpful -- but why in MoP am I having to complain about a bugged quest that came out in WotLK? Why can I STILL not fly in the blood elf and Draenei starting zones? Still, I will go on because I love it !
Cue endless THE SKY IS FALLING posts.Let's face it; I've played WoW for four years and I'm starting to get a little bored with it. Imagine if you started in Vanilla. It's a nearly 10 year old game, of course the subscriber base is falling.I've been playing since the beta of Vanilla when you could only play Orcs and Humans. While I do get bored occasionally, it is no reason for me to quit now. They release content pretty quickly, and with pet battles, mounts, achieves, PvE and PvP, I have enough to keep me entertained. :)
I agree with lankybirt on the CRZ hurting the game also IMO PUG/LFR is playing a part in my thoughts of leaving the game - I started playing over 4 years ago on what (at the time) was a mid to low pop server, there was enough players around to form raids and dungeon run and I had no trouble or hassles farming mats for any of my toons.Now I’m still on the same realm but with CRZ its now a high pop realm due to all the other realms being here also with all the problems with to many ppl for farmingwith the PUG/LFR system I’m finding more "rudeness" in the game the when I started - I used to belong to a great guild, we had dungeon teams that would run all the LK heroics - we learned how each other played our respective toons and roles, we took our time and really learned what to do in those dungeons (and we racked up the acvhements) - we formed core raid teams and took the time to explain what was expected of each player. now its nothing but "speed-runs", no talk, no help and most of all no fun anymoreand on a personal note focus has killed my hunter - I used to be able to pull close to 30% DPS in a raid (ICC - Lord Marrowgar 35% average - as a hunter I could stay far enough away to spend less time moving and more time hitting (and I had a macro to target the bonespikes - if you were in my raid I was the one that knocked you off the spike :D)with focus and the bull$%&# to generate it I’m dam lucky to get 17% in a 5 man dungeon. to go from being begged to bring my hunter to a raid to being embarrassed to take my hunter anywhere all because some dev had a bad ideathat’s my 2 cents (ok more like a dollars worth) - thanks for letting me vent
Good. This is what Blizzard deserves for being adamant in their thought on how things are and not listening to their fan base. They decided to slow down the game for casual players by making drop rates lower so that those who raided 6 hours a night 4 to 5 nights a week would not cry that the game was too easy anymore. So by alienating those if their core subscribers who don't want to be bogged down with dailies to gear because they want gear but can not get gear because the devs are hellbent on keeping the game slow so that not everyone is seeing heroic raids. Force people into dailies to stay with the pack see how well that works. I believe some server merging may be necessary to save the underpopulated ones or more people will leave soon.Slow? I've never geared so fast in the 4 years I've played wow than I have in MoPFor me, it's just lots of little things.So many new things to try:Collecting MoP rare treasures (no bag space left)Brawler's guildPet battles (Why are there so many kinds of rabbit/snake/frog/etc...?)Bone grinding on Isle of GiantsThe farm and friendship repsSolo scenario key run (why do we need so much gold and yet so many gold sinks?)Lots of new battlegroundsNew PvP zones in PvE realmsetc...But I rarely do anything new anymore because I know It's going to be nerfed in the future:LFR (the ultimate nerf)Normal and heroic raid progressive nerfsReroll loot tokensMassive XP/Rep bonusesReduction in time to level (85-90 is pretty fast already)Rep commendationsFaction tagging (hit once, walk away, get loot)6000 Valor legendary quest -> 3000 Valor legendary questLegendaries for all (not very legendary)Blacksmithing ghost-iron leveling 1-600 (making a frying pan is more instructive than a huge axe?)MoP Herbalism buff comingTons of valor and gold and coins for doing daliesBuffing VP in dungeons and scenarios100g world item spawns that give huge XPMoP Archaeology for grinding non-MoP ArchaeologyArchaeology leveling fast and grainting huge XPNat Pagle rep grindFarm rep grindFarm resource grind (ore and leather and cloth from plants?)Zandalari book dropsEven the nerfs get nerfed:LFR fail buffsBuffing RNG for reroll tokensElder charms dropping from everything (pet battles?)Cutting the cost on reroll tokensBand-aid rep grinding tokens from warbringers (unless a Blood DK is soloing them)Even more resources from the farmAnd all the strange design decisions:Simplified talent treesScenarios instead of dungeonsClasses drifting towards each other (mages are a pet class?)Arbitrary gold sink profession matsThe warlock book drops from IoT rares?Valor "books" drop from IoT rares?JP is for what now?The old reroll tokens are... money now? To buy... rocks?Fishing is still really boringCRZAnd all the imbalance in how to achieve in the game. Why bust ass trying to get into the newest raid when the next patch will give me rep based valor gear that is way better for practically no effort?I'm not a great raider by any stretch. But, when I got gear in wrath, I felt awesome because I wasn't walking through the tourist version of a raid. I had to learn strats. I had to care about my fellow raiders. I had to get out of the fire. There was a sense of accomplishment I don't feel waltzing through ToT in LFR. We died? AWESOME! We get a buff! Did I get gear? No? Click a button to try again! Didn't get any that time? We'll fix that so you do! World bosses? That sounds exciting! Nope, just hit it once and finish my dailies. Didn't fight the world boss? Wait 15 min, he'll be back! Cata was too slow? MoP is turbo charged! New content every 3 days!It's a bizarre combination of feeling overwhelmed for stuff to do but at the same time being unable to muster the motivation to do it all because I know with 100% certainty it will be easier later or gone completely or changed into something completely different.What's the solution? I'm not sure there is one. It feels kind of out of control and needs to be reined in. Drastic, reactionary changes aren't fixing anything. They're just adding to the chaos.^^THISI'm a new player - been playing for about 6 months. But, as I level toons, I feel the difference between all of the expansions, and I truly do get a feel for the older content...MOP almost feels like a different game completely in terms of style, etc. Anywho, I agree, they have made it pretty easy. The legendary items say it all. Everyone can get them pretty easily. I don't totally blame blizzard, though. They have to try to balance to keep the harder-core players interested (those of us that play 40-60+ hours a week), and the casual players (which is probably becoming the majority). The casuals don't have the time (or patience) to do what is necessary to get gear/rewards, so if they didn't have ways of getting gear, they'd feel left out and leave. The hardcores on the other hand, have the time and focus to do the raid content, and feel like it's not fair that the casuals can get geared without having to do the raid work. I see it both ways. On the one hand, your average casual who doesn't play that much can get full 522 gear with rep and world boss drops. On the other hand, there is Thunderforged and heroic gear that tries to sate the hardcores. But, I understand... why do normal raiding if you can just rep grind to get 522s. Although, getting gear from Ra-Den must feel like a supreme achievement, though ...so maybe it isn't too easy. There are basically 20 item levels separating LFR and Normal, and 19 item levels between Normal and top end TF heroics. It takes some dedication from a serious raiding guild to be downing Ra-Den on a weekly basis. There's still room for true progression and accomplishment there. Not to mention, they didn't make the ToT meta achievement very easy. Depending on server, Heroic raiding might not even be an option. On my server, Misha, I don't think Ra-Den has been killed, and may not be for some time. Of course, the "elite" raiding guilds on Misha are pretty arrogant and have all been playing for ages and shun people who don't have Hand of A'dal title. Also, the poor state of social interaction in the game has really turned a lot of people off to serious raiding/group content. There are add-ons that spam chat with the players who failed to get out of the way of a special attack or took a tick from an AOE. How is anyone supposed to learn or take interest when they get badgered (automatically by add-ons, in some cases)? I've seen people who do some of the badgering refer to Durumu and Lei Shen fights as "common sense". This is a complicated issue and I don't think there is a single fix. ilvl 600 legendary cloaks are getting a bit much, though...considering everyone will have pretty easy access to them.
Technically, everyone has access to a legendary weapon, as long as your class is eligible to use it. Look at all of the people now a days who run around with Thunderfury, Hand of Rag and so on and so forth.
I am not surprised and can only see this number continuing to fall. How long can you keep a player base with the same formula? Sooner or later people are just going to get sick of the game and quit. How long can you keep folks doing quests to level and then doing a host of dailies to get even better gear and make a brand new area that has the same all over? The economy isn't going as great as before, more people are out of work and I would hope they cancel their sub if they were not working.Also there are a number of "free" games up and coming that seem to have very good graphics. I can see the ads now and how much Blizz is compromising to get folks to come back. I recently asked for a number of characters to be brought back (deleted) and they did it without any complaints. In the past I bet that might have been a different story.
I've only played since the start of Cata, which was arguably a bad time to start playing, but I'm still in the game for the social side of it, I play to talk to friends, and willing to keep paying my sub because it is only 30p ish a day. I have raided at a fairly competitive level before against other guilds on my realm, and that was fun and I do actually miss the buzz I got from raiding, but sadly had to stop for exams, so I wish that people who do have the time to play the game regularly or those who played from vanilla would stop complaining, because like another comment, a lot of the things put in WoW are good, CRZ have made levelling my warrior better as I am meeting others, doing some quests etc and seeing people of the other faction to duel with, which I missed when levelling my priest palla and mage. LFR is often ridiculed but the vast majority of people I have met on LFR have been nice, not acted like elitists. Obviously there are a few exceptions, and a few scrubs as well but LFR in Dragon Soul got me into normal then HC raiding, which was the best part of my WoW exp despite it being Dragon Soul. So to the 'old time players', realise the game has changed for the better, when WoW was released cult games were the thing, but nowadays most people are casual and have lives to live.
It's either the Dailies or CRZ that's to blame. The effects are finally being felt. I know Blizzard is doing a great deal to mitigate the effect of Dailies, but they're doing absolutely nothing about CRZ. Well, they better, before it's too late.Cheers.I have been running with a number of people in guild for a few years now, and all of them (many who are pretty hardcore about not quitting) groan about the dailies. It is clear that sooner or later people are going to get bored. I personally hate trying to do dailies on the new Thunder Island (Hope that is right). Of course flight is removed so you aggro a bunch of mobs where ever you go. Want to do those dailies there? You have to pound though 600k plus mobs to and a number of them to get the task accomplished. I am not even including the mobs you pull while trying to take out your goal. I know this has been the tried and test formula for a while now but how long can this continue? Also for CRZ zone. I like the idea but I now have problems finding ore, mats I need because in certain areas the mobs are gone, ore mined, herbs picked. I noticed that a few quests that I had no problems with finding the mobs and getting though the quest, I had to come back later or skip them due to lack of targets.Yes, I am not surprised by the numbers...
I'm on the verge of cancelling my account as well. I am not engaged with end level content. I spend the majority of my time running dailies, on numerous 90's, in order to get the rep and Lesser Charm of Good Fortune for bonus rolls in LFR. To further exacerbate my situation, I have two jobs, college, and a family to juggle. I simply don't have the time needed to progress in WoW.It's not because I can't afford the subscription, it's because I can't afford the extra time involved. This is compared to Cata, WotLK, BC, and Vanilla; where I could juggle my time around end game content, seeing everything WoW had to offer. Raids, Professions, Auctions, & level up alternate characters.5.3 promises to fix many of these issues, but it may be too little too late as they are seeing. I have long time friends, that I met through WoW, that have given it up for the aforementioned reasons as well. They seem happier in life, without the World of Warcraft (World of Dailies).This is one thing. I truly enjoy WoW most of the time, and have forced myself to open up to different ways of playing the game. However, there really is just so much to do, I cannot imagine how anyone could achieve their goals while attending school and working. I do have a bit of a Wow problem, and can often end up playing for many, many hours. It must be tough for the casual player who can only play a bit on the weekends and maybe a couple of hours throughout the week.Also, I am pretty sure my life would be a bit better if I did not play WoW as much as I do. But, well, that's my choice.
I think though, that one of the biggest issues, is the lack of a friendly community in wow nowadays. Case in point, just go to any capital city and ask in chat a simple question like wheres the inn or trainer. You might get a correct answer, but before that your gonna get insulted, made fun of, and talked down to by so many people its ridiculous. Its like no one remembers that we were ALL noobs once.I just posted in the WoW forums about this. With some of the things that make the game content accessible for all (LFR, LFD, guild perks, RBGs) there is little need to coordinate with others and have people skills. I joined a large social guild, but it's common to ask a question or look for a buddy, and get no response from the other ten people on. Guild membership is primarily about guild perks. I could get the same experience from a single player game. And I do use the game as a social outlet, so I'm likely to play if my friends are on.So my options are battle tag the cool people I find, work really hard to connect with others, find a solitary focus for the game, or move on.To your point, Haveck, I'd like to figure out how to bring it back.
And there you go PROFITS are up and there is your Big problem see it is unending in its slow walk to death less profits means do something to fix the game more means just keep cutting costs and we will make PROFITS. This is a game and that way of thinking will kill it because it isn't about making a better game it is about PROFITS.
everytime i open a ticket to launch a complaint they either refer me to a different dept or they cant fix my problem listen to the people that play wowSince I started playing WoW about 5 years ago, I have had to open 3 tickets. Each time I was treated with kindness, patience and understanding, and the issues were resolved within hours.People can have problems with CS anywhere.I truly don't believe WoW is ignoring players. They are a business and need players to pay their monthly fee. They are trying to make as many people happy as possible. I have grown a bit as a player. when I first started, I had never played anything like this before. It was a bit scary for me to play with "real" people, and for the longest time I avoided doing Dungeons, BG's, etc. I hated the fact that there was a lot I could not achieve without being part of a group or a guild. Someone mentioned earlier about how asking a simple question in-game would be met with ridicule and insults, and this is true. This is one of the reasons I avoided group activities. Really, it is as though some people were never beginning players, but sprouted forth with full epic gear and knowledge of the entire game. It is terrible in random BG's. People can't understand that not everyone is so gung-ho about getting geared up and improving their PvP. It IS frustrating when you lose a BG because nobody is doing what they "should", but they all pay their sub fees, and they are entitled to do as they please. Whether that is fighting in full LFR gear or even just greens. When I first started BG's I had no clue about how to actually win these things. I just followed the crowd and killed whomever I could. Ignore chat, do your best. It took me a while to figure out how I could best serve my party in specific BGs -- Alterac Valley being a prime example.Sorry, I've gotten off-topic.But, remember: If you are complaining about people in random BG's, don't run them. Group with your friends or guildies and run RBG's or pre-mades.
It's not "improving" the game for "returning" players Blizzard needs, it's improving on what they have for players who have stayed...as those numbers are declining also.I left in March as I was totally bored with the reputation rep grind, and reading the sorry excuses from raiders claiming, "you don't need to do them". Well, if you're not raiding what's the point in playing the game?Add to this misery is you can't even enjoy playing a class you do enjoy, because the game class/role mechanics get so screwed up. I don't bother to heal anymore because it's so boring I fall asleep (spend more time trying to generate holy power than using it). Oh, the dexterity is there to make even quests "complex", but if I wanted run around like a chicken with his head cut off...I wouldn't be playing a healer. -_-WoW has some serious issues in class/role mechanics; too much gating; a community full of 4chan players who prefer to troll more in trade than even play (and they remain ingame, but legit players get banned); and allowing excessive botting to overcome the game (they're multiboxing in dungeons and LFR now. Next they'll be in normal and heroic raids...and then just put a fork in the game as it's reduced to macros and multibox programs and become another F2P game of he who pays more wins).Why return to THAT mess? -_-
So enjoy your solo game while it lasts but Blizzard and the majority of the playerbase don't agree with your wish to play a solo game so your time is limited.Are you willingfully ignoring what those who dislike CRZ have said? Please find me any single quote from either Wowhead or from the Official Forums from someone who says they preferred WoW before CRZ because it was a single player game and Mists suddenly made it an MMO.My comment was specifically directed to Lankybrit, who has made no secret of the fact that he wants the MMO nature of the game to apply only in certain aspects of the game.Levelling and the old world are not areas he wants the MMO experiance in.So I was reminding him that Blizzard recently stated that empty realms were on their radar for something that need to be fixed and that he shouldn't be surprised when further changes are announced to do something about the Low population realm that he favours.I've been on Low population servers and they are not places that you want to stay long on - fortunately I could afford to transfer my alts off them but then I found out the old world was just as empty on the bigger servers. Luckly CRZ came along to improve things otherwise I would have quit the game.I want the MMO nature of the game to apply to areas that are multi-player in nature. That is, BGs, World PvP, Raids, Dungeons, Scenarios, Home cities, etc. etc. For example, I had some good chat in SWC yesterday about Blizzcon and did a couple of Dungeons with other people.I want the MMO nature of the game to apply mildly to aspects of the game that are solo in nature. That is, leveling and gathering resources. Just yesterday, I was doing the first few quests in Northern Stranglehorn, and I came across another alliance player in the cave there. We grouped up for a couple of quests. Now I know someone else ON MY SERVER. You come across players occasionally, but not tons doing the same quests all the time.MMO means Multiple people online at the same time. Not necessarily ALL IN THE SAME PLACE at the same time.You may say that I'm in the minority, but there are tons and tons of players on the wow forums who agree with this and were fine with WoW the way it was before CRZ.BTW: When you say you found out the old world was just as empty on a bigger server. What was it about the old world that you needed other players for?Anyway, don't want to derail this discussion into just talking about CRZ, so this will be my last post here about it.Cheers.
What was it about the old world that you needed other players for?Back then Group quests needed a group...and sitting in a dead zone, asking every five minutes for someone to help kill this last stupid arse mob was not an enjoyable time.
What was it about the old world that you needed other players for?Back then Group quests needed a group...and sitting in a dead zone, asking every five minutes for someone to help kill this last stupid arse mob was not an enjoyable time.Its a good thing all low level group quests are gone now and they have been set on rails to such an extent you phase away from any possible help at a moments notice, isn't it?
What was it about the old world that you needed other players for?Back then Group quests needed a group...and sitting in a dead zone, asking every five minutes for someone to help kill this last stupid arse mob was not an enjoyable time.Its a good thing all low level group quests are gone now and they have been set on rails to such an extent you phase away from any possible help at a moments notice, isn't it?Honestly? Compared to both Vanilla and BC, I'm actually going to say yes. Trying to get the Ogri'la quest chain opener was a massive pain in the ass back then. Or the Shadowmoon Valley quests; a large number of those needed a group, and if you couldn't find anyone, you were SoL. Trying to get enough people for some of the zone end quests sucked ass.
Why does this matter? I doubt any of us own stock in Blizzard.Who cares, guys.
Speaking as a casual player, I have found Pandaria to be surprisingly offputting. Yes, there's a lot of nice juicy content to explore (six different cooking paths, bunches of new reps to grind, easter eggs to look for, rare bosses that I can kill with my crappy non-raid gear, etc) - but in a way, it's almost too much. It was clear to me early on, and remains so now, that the casual player has very little hope of getting to see the raid content. I only reached the point where I was allowed to queue for LFR about two weeks ago.Granted, in the meantime, I took (and passed!) the bar exam, and started working - which means my time is roughly as limited as it was in law school - but when (for example) the End Time dungeons appeared, I had three characters that could literally walk into them, and was able to push one more in by crafting her some PVP blue armor. The same is not true in Pandaria - the reps I have to grind out to get decent crafted armor are the same ones I have to grind to buy decent rep armor. The quests I have to do to get those reps up give me these tokens, which are useless until I can get to a raid! So they pile up as a visual reminder of how far behind the curve I am.Bottom line, I feel like the present game is chasing away casual players. It well may be that PvP players and hardcore raiders are still the people that Blizzard wants, but I would like to point out that my money is the same color as theirs, and I pay just as much of it every month.The way to keep as many subscribers as possible is to cater to as many different playing styles as possible, and while I applaud the experiment that Pandaria represents, I have to say that it hasn't had anywhere near as much casual appeal as I hoped/wanted/expected.